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[aivoryuk]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Tue, 14 November 2006 14:50

Any other DAC1 opinions?

hi jerry

i've had my benchmark for a while now and i think its great, when i first used it i did think it was a bit bright but its prob what i was using didn't represent the highs very well and i wasn't used to it.

I've not found the benchmark lacking in lower mids though.

it fits in really well for my set up as im using it for monitoring and for my analogue loop. I think when i upgrade my a/d-d/a i'll prob go for the lavry blue for my analogue loop with the benchmark as the monitoring alone.

Have you tried the lavry blue just as the main listening source (iwould assume that you have)?? how do they compare??

[zetterstroem]

when i listened to the benchmark vs. the rme and audio note i found it lacking in the low mids and too agressive in the high mids....

i tried it in d/a/d loops with different a/d's and it sucked out lo mids compared to the original file...... plus added some harshness not found in the other d/a's.....

i cannot see how this could be due to low jitter....

however this is exactly the same sound i hear in almost all equipment that uses the dreadful 5532/34 chip in the output.....

oh.... i almost forgot the smeared "plug-in" top end..... i blame the src

on the positive side it's alot more precise than our rme when it comes to transients....

[TotalSonic]

Hi Jerry -
I actually run a similar setup to what you had - I have a Lavry Blue with 2 DAC modules - one gets sent directly to my Coleman controller and the other goes to my analog process chain - and I use a Lucid DA9624 (which I had before I got the Lavry's) as a live feed back from the ADC that comes off the analog process chain and then sent to the digital process chain so that I can do one button push a/b's between the original and the completely processed (both analog and digital chain's) signals.  The reason I use the Lucid is that I need a DAC that has a built in and easily accessible attenuator so that I can quickly level match it against the fixed output of the Lavry Blue's prior to sending it to my Coleman controller.  

I can see why you might be startled with the change from the Lucid to the Benchmark as the Lucid has a fairly "soft" sound to my ear - with transients definitely not as fast and the image not as wide as you can get with the Lavry Blues in "Crystal Lock" mode.  But still I think even after the six or so years since the DA9624's  introduction that it's a fairly under rated DAC, that while I would be hesitant to use to send to the process chain considering the other options, can certainly serve you well for monitoring, with results that in my experience translate very well to client's systems.  As a bonus the Lucid's headphone amp is certainly cleaner than my Coleman's also.

One option that you seems might really work for you as you already like the Lavry's (and would give the big advantage of having consistent DAC's for each part of your chain) would be to get one of his newer Lavry "Black" DA-10's - a half rack stereo DAC, which features an onboard digitally controlled attenuator, both AES and SPDIF inputs, and an onboard headphone amp - going for about the same or even less than the Benchmark DAC.  You might also want to audition the Mytek Stereo96 DAC as another option that I think could work well too.

Anyway - my plans at some point are to upgrade my Lucid to the Lavry Black - but at this point, with an API 5500 on order and a Pendulum OCL2 already received - my new toys budget is completely tapped out for a while and I still feel that the Lucid serves my needs well.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[jfrigo]

I used the DAC-1 as monitor DAC for a while, but moved it to the home studio when I got the Lavrys. I have a blue rack with 6 ch. of D/A. When not in use for 5.1 (which means most of the time since 5.1 is the exception rather than the rule) one pair is for monitor, another to feed the analog chain, and the last to feed the meters... the meters sound great by the way! (place emoticon here for the humor impaired) I still like the DAC-1, but the prefer the Lavry. The Lavry Gold, however, smokes 'em all. Off to buy a lottery ticket...

[Jerry Tubb]

Wow! interesting mixture of replies regarding the Benchmark DAC1.

Range of replies:

a. like 'em
b. love 'em
c. hate 'em
d. neutral (they're fine)
e. didn't like 'em at first, but grew to like 'em.
f. liked 'em at first, but decided I like another brand better.

As they say, different strokes.

One guy swears that Brand X is the key to his sound, another guy swears by Brand Y, and wouldn't use X for anything. Yet another guy uses Brand Z, thinks only amateurs would use X or Y.

But after thinking about it a little deeper, & wondering why the range of opinions would be so varied, I realized a DAC is just one part of a Monitoring system.

The DAW feeds the DAC, then to the monitor controller (or console), a power amp (or amps), and a set of speakers, needless to mention the cable choices : - )

Then the bigger part of that monitoring environment... the room itself, acoustical aspects and treatments in the room, studio furniture, any ambient noise, and of course the ear of the beholder, and what they're accustomed to.

It all works as one big system, with each component affecting the sound of the whole system, and as a result, influencing your opinion of any one piece, especially if judging solely by ear.

I may have to admit, that someone with a deep technical understanding of how each piece relates to another in such a system, just might possibly have a slight advantage ; - )

Changing such a vital piece of the chain, especially from the  languid sounding Lucid DA9624, initiated a ~process~ of getting acclimated to a new sound, and how it works with the system, rather than an instant switch 'n go (although I suspect the Lavry Black may have been an easier transition).

So the varied opinions most likely result from the fact the fact that none of us have identical monitoring situations, and we may all hear things slightly differently. Just think how boring it would be if we all had to work in uniform "state approved" mastering rooms!

With all that long winded diatribe said, and lofty hot air emitted, I did two sessions today with the Benchmark as the monitor DAC, and didn't second guess anything. I think I'm gettin' used to it, and have decided to keep it. Although I still haven't tried the Mytek... hmmm.

Thanks for all your input gentlemen, and best regards.

JT

Oh Yeah, one more thing. Since the human ear isn't changing, and the audible bandwidth remains steady, surely i won't have to "upgrade" convertors again for awhile! Seems like like over the past 20 years I've had as many different DACs. But then again, with free market competition in place, that Lavry Gold quality may drop in price to around say, that of a Benchmark... we shall see.

[lowland]

Nicely thought through, Jerry: I don't beleive you'll regret your decision in a hurry.

[sui-city]

Myself and another member of this board did a shootout of a DAC-1 and Lavry Blue.

I personally found the DAC-1 to be more forward than the Lavry Blue. It felt as if the DAC-1 came right up to my face, but then  its tails also moved forward.

The Lavry Blue on the other hand was more laidback. It wasn't as aggresive and upfront, and its tails stretched much further into the distance. I also found it to have a greater soundstage.

If any of that makes any sense.

Another thing we encountered was distortion on a Lavry Black DA10.

At first we thought it may be the unit, so we tried another one. Same thing.

It turns out that the distortion was in the music itself. It was a piece he had listened to on numerous occasions, and that he used as a reference for quality.

Once we heard it on the Lavry Black, we went back to his DAC-1, and sure enough it was there. It seems what had happened was that the burst of distortion was better represented for a longer period of time on the Lavry Black, and once we had heard it, we could hear it on the Benchmark, albeit for a shorter period of time.

Disclaimer: I am a Lavry dealer. So take this with a pinch of salt if you so desire. Although, these tests were done in his treated mastering room, with the express intention of giving him the opportunity to compare the Lavrys (both Black and Blue) to the DAC-1 which he had been using for a long time. this was also done over a period of time, not just a single day.

[Thomas W. Bethel]

As Jerry Tubb says the DAC is only part of the monitor chain.

We are using the DAC-1s to feed a Bryston 4B and 3 B amplifier and ALON IV speakers (two rooms). The connecting cables between the DAC-1 and the Bryston are custom made AES/EBU cables about 6 feet long. We tried going unbalanced to the Bryston at first but found we liked the balanced cables better. We also tried to ground lift the AES/EBU cables but the high end of the spectrum became brighter and more forward. We also noticed that the DAC-1 wants to be left on all the time. If you turn it off and repower it the unit takes a couple of hours to sound good. We are tri wiring our ALON IVs and it makes a big difference in their sound. We took the the DAC-1 to a shoot out with some other D to A converters  at the local Stereo shop. It was very interesting. The DAC-1 was loved by some people, hated by others and many people said it was the first time they had heard some sounds from their CDs. The other converters were a Mark Levinson, a Proceed PDP-3, a Bel Canto Design DAC-2 and the analog outputs of the CD player. The speakers were QUADs drived by an Audio Research power amplifier and pre amp.

You might want to check out this review http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/benchmark/dac1.html and http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161032

Hope this helps....

[Riccardo]

jfrigo wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 05:26

I still like the DAC-1, but the prefer the Lavry. The Lavry Gold, however, smokes 'em all. Off to buy a lottery ticket...

I think we can all agree on this! And then the meters will sound even better!  

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Thomas W. Bethel wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 11:54

We also noticed that the DAC-1 wants to be left on all the time. If you turn it off and repower it the unit takes a couple of hours to sound good.

really? can you elaborate on how it sounds bad? has anyone else noticed this? i'm not doubting you i'm just curious. i've not noticed this...but then i have cloth ears.

[Sonovo]

Hi Jerry,

I recently did a shootout between Lavry Blue, Benchmark DAC1, Metric Halo ULN-2 and Mytek 8x192, the long version is on another thread here somewhere.

Short version - I didn't care for the Blue that much, I preferred the DAC1. The ULN-2 was actually quite similar to the DAC1. The Mytek was in a class above the others, and I bought it. Very very nice indeed!

Cheers,
Thor

[Rivendell61]

MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 12:14

Thomas W. Bethel wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 11:54  We also noticed that the DAC-1 wants to be left on all the time. If you turn it off and repower it the unit takes a couple of hours to sound good. really? can you elaborate on how it sounds bad? has anyone else noticed this? i'm not doubting you i'm just curious. i've not noticed this...but then i have cloth ears.

Well, I'm not the person being asked but.....Hugh Robjohns makes a similar observation in his Sound On Sound DAC1 review (second grey box down 'A warm feeling'):
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul05/articles/benchmark.htm

Mark

[jtr]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 01:30

Wow! interesting mixture of replies regarding the Benchmark DAC1. (followed by a well thought out bunch of profound stuff)

What really matters to me is whether the D/A   is allowing me to make the right decisions with regards to the final product.

My"check" on this is to listen to the final result off the mastered
cdr through a standard CD player, no external d/a and compare it to the playback through the d/a off the workstation.  
I do feel that personal preference and judgement will always come into play.  My last job my room had a DCS 9something d/a, Mytek d/a,  Apogee psx100 and a few other miscellaneous d/as to chose from. I can't say that I ever really understood how to select which one, but the DCS seemed to be the best choice for representing the signal and showing me what needed doin'. So I stuck with it, rather than jump around.  

The DAC1 I'm now using seems to be working out ok- Had the Lavry Black been available at the time I bought it I would have probably given it a shot since it's a US Northwest product...and I'm kinda loyal that way.  But like I said, I have no regrets and there are so many other things on the upgrade path that I value for my next steps.

It's great that we now have several really decent converters to choose from, at fairly reasonable prices.

It appears that there are also an increasingly large number of really terrible converters on the market aimed at the podcast and home studio markets as well........

[Thomas W. Bethel]

MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 12:14

Thomas W. Bethel wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 11:54  We also noticed that the DAC-1 wants to be left on all the time. If you turn it off and repower it the unit takes a couple of hours to sound good. really? can you elaborate on how it sounds bad? has anyone else noticed this? i'm not doubting you i'm just curious. i've not noticed this...but then i have cloth ears.

It sounds harsher, lacks detail and depth when it is first turned on but after it warms up it sounds GREAT! It takes about an hour or more for it to sound really good. Since it draws so little AC power we just leave both of ours on all the time. I would agree with all that Hugh Robjohns said about the unit. It is a great bang for the buck.

[Matt_G]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Wed, 15 November 2006 19:30

Wow! interesting mixture of replies regarding the Benchmark DAC1. Range of replies: a. like 'em b. love 'em c. hate 'em d. neutral (they're fine) e. didn't like 'em at first, but grew to like 'em. f. liked 'em at first, but decided I like another brand better. As they say, different strokes. One guy swears that Brand X is the key to his sound, another guy swears by Brand Y, and wouldn't use X for anything. Yet another guy uses Brand Z, thinks only amateurs would use X or Y. But after thinking about it a little deeper, & wondering why the range of opinions would be so varied, I realized a DAC is just one part of a Monitoring system. The DAW feeds the DAC, then to the monitor controller (or console), a power amp (or amps), and a set of speakers, needless to mention the cable choices : - ) Then the bigger part of that monitoring environment... the room itself, acoustical aspects and treatments in the room, studio furniture, any ambient noise, and of course the ear of the beholder, and what they're accustomed to. It all works as one big system, with each component affecting the sound of the whole system, and as a result, influencing your opinion of any one piece, especially if judging solely by ear.

Jerry here is some things you can bank on & I'm pretty sure everyone who posted here could agree. The Benchmark DAC-1 is the best sounding DAC for it's price, in fact it beats quite a few more expensive ones too. But lets face it, if money was no object we would all have a Lavry Gold driving our monitors & our analog front & back end.

Matt