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Author Topic: mixing help  (Read 5918 times)

canada

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2006, 02:45:25 pm »

wwittman wrote on Fri, 17 November 2006 01:37

ditto, I almost never put anything anywhere but left, right, or centre.



wow, I would have never guessed that.  What about keyboard swells, tom fills, vocal delays... seems crazy to me, but I guess there's no "right way" to mix it seems! Very Happy
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Tom C

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2006, 04:26:48 pm »

canada wrote on Sun, 26 November 2006 20:45

wwittman wrote on Fri, 17 November 2006 01:37

ditto, I almost never put anything anywhere but left, right, or centre.



wow, I would have never guessed that.  What about keyboard swells, tom fills, vocal delays... seems crazy to me, but I guess there's no "right way" to mix it seems! Very Happy


Wandering keyboard/synthesizer sounds and tom fills are (for me)
stereo effects.
These are obviously not panned hard left/right.
I think people speak about the base instrument tracks
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wwittman

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2006, 07:54:59 pm »

tom fills "move" between the two mics picking them up, for me, usually.

if i DO close mic them, I pan them into place.

but it's a rare exception.

keyboards, guitars, vocals, delays, reverbs, as well as bass drum and snare drum, ... all L, R, OR Cntre.

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rodge

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2006, 03:01:54 pm »

keeping hard panning in mind with drums. you would pan the direct mic's HARD, but the room, overhead, and pzm would be centered?
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dconstruction

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2006, 03:07:26 pm »

I have to say, reading this thread and trying out the L/R/C only thing helped me a good deal just last night - if not in the mix itself, then in limiting the 180 choices I was being made a coward by.  And frankly, I think it also forced me to rely more on the tone of each instrument - EQ and volume adjustment - to best "sit" each track in the mix.

So, for that: thanks.

L
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Tomas Danko

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2006, 03:08:10 pm »

rodge wrote on Tue, 28 November 2006 20:01

keeping hard panning in mind with drums. you would pan the direct mic's HARD, but the room, overhead, and pzm would be centered?


That's the only exception to prove the rule.

If you have anything recorded in stereo and hard panning left and right makes it sound too funky (ie 8 bar tom fills mimicing a jet plane passing by) you can narrow it towards the center to fit the mix.

Then again, if you had positioned the stereo mic setup differently it would probably not happen.

Not sure what we should call this "manoeuver"... Foldback seems to be taken. hehe
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Tomas Danko

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2006, 03:20:36 pm »

dconstruction wrote on Tue, 28 November 2006 20:07

I have to say, reading this thread and trying out the L/R/C only thing helped me a good deal just last night - if not in the mix itself, then in limiting the 180 choices I was being made a coward by.  And frankly, I think it also forced me to rely more on the tone of each instrument - EQ and volume adjustment - to best "sit" each track in the mix.

So, for that: thanks.

L


Absolutely. If you need to start panning a sound around to make it fit, perhaps it should not be there in the first place the way it is (or at all). I find that "The Right Way" (well, not the right way, but the right, center and left way!) makes you question tracks for the final mix.

Which is always a good thing.

If it can't exist L, C or R, is it really good enough to exist at all?

"Pan law, it's just not a problem anymore."
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pg666

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2006, 04:29:24 pm »

Quote:

If it can't exist L, C or R, is it really good enough to exist at all?


can't say i agree with this at all. sounds usually don't fall magically into place when stereo mic'ing, though i don't think that makes them unusable. one side of a drum overhead pair may be picking up a lot of cymbal brashness (or even snare bleed) and i wouldn't want that panned all the way, while the other side might sit perfectly panned hard.

i'm also a fan of having quieter parts panned a little narrower (like 9 'o clock/3 'o clock at most) and then having it panned hard when the loud part kicks in. cool dynamic effect.

i used to think instruments should automatically sit neatly when i stereo mic'ed them, but in retrospect i think i was probably compromising the individual sounds by adhering to some 'philosophy'. i'm glad to be able to pan things anywhere, if only for a few minor elements.
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Tomas Danko

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2006, 06:15:31 pm »

pg666 wrote on Tue, 28 November 2006 21:29

Quote:

If it can't exist L, C or R, is it really good enough to exist at all?


can't say i agree with this at all. sounds usually don't fall magically into place when stereo mic'ing, though i don't think that makes them unusable. one side of a drum overhead pair may be picking up a lot of cymbal brashness (or even snare bleed) and i wouldn't want that panned all the way, while the other side might sit perfectly panned hard.

i'm also a fan of having quieter parts panned a little narrower (like 9 'o clock/3 'o clock at most) and then having it panned hard when the loud part kicks in. cool dynamic effect.

i used to think instruments should automatically sit neatly when i stereo mic'ed them, but in retrospect i think i was probably compromising the individual sounds by adhering to some 'philosophy'. i'm glad to be able to pan things anywhere, if only for a few minor elements.


You've got a good point there, 666.

Things rarely do end up magically in place when stereo mic'ing. I agree. Then again, I'm not a world class engineer. Not even third class! Smile And that is why I fold back the stereo image of some of my stereo recordings on a regular basis myself. Which means that I agree with you on empirical basis.

However, I do not use this as an excuse to abandon the L-C-R concept while mixing. I hope you understand what I mean.

And just like you, I grow the sound field ridiculously wide during the loud parts (ie the chorus).

Personally, I achieve this using delays (utilizing the Haas effect), reverbs and ensemble/Dimension D effects mixed into the L-C-R scenery. YMMV, of course.

Regards,

Tomas Danko
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wwittman

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2006, 12:11:50 am »

it's not "magically"... it's a matter of placing the mics in the right place.

no magic involved.

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compasspnt

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2006, 04:52:23 am »

canada wrote on Sun, 26 November 2006 14:45


... seems crazy to me, but I guess there's no "right way" to mix it seems!


Actually, there is.
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pg666

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2006, 11:16:37 am »

Quote:

it's not "magically"... it's a matter of placing the mics in the right place.

no magic involved.


i've yet to hear a drumset that wasn't lopsided in some way. if i find a great sound that needs a little balancing stereo-wise, i reach for the pan knobs. in the past i'd back up the mics to balance it more, but i never liked the way it sounded as much so i quit doing that.

or maybe i should learn to like the sound of a 16" crash coming directly from the right side..
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maxim

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2006, 04:31:31 pm »

c mccyrry wrote:

"I guess there's no "right way" to mix it seems! "

no, but there is a wrong way (see your sig)
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canada

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2006, 04:50:00 pm »

maxim wrote on Thu, 30 November 2006 21:31

c mccyrry wrote:

"I guess there's no "right way" to mix it seems! "

no, but there is a wrong way (see your sig)


I don't get it.
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maxim

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Re: mixing help
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2006, 05:10:46 pm »

malcolm x said:

"wrong is wrong"


(maybe, this thread should be in 'whatever works')

personally, when i want to learn something, i'm more interested in wrong than right, anyway

i'll know right when i see it, but i don't want to see wrong if i can help it

in the end though, wrong might just be the new right (and the new right is definitely very wrong)
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