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Author Topic: A good record compared to competent business  (Read 7188 times)

danickstr

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2006, 06:56:08 PM »

maybe I missed the boat, but you are saying that you do not charge for your recording services?  I am confused. Confused
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Nick Dellos - MCPE  

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Die BREMSSPUR

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2006, 07:35:28 PM »

Sorry,

I meant, record for money, meaning shit I don't like or don't believe in...

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Fibes

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2006, 12:10:41 AM »

It's a tough business.

I subscribe to acting as factotum to keep eggs spread out like an eastern blok rummage sale.

That said, repeat business in small markets is one key, the other is underpromising and over delivering.

Lately we've been so swamped we can't keep up, it's causing problems, starting fires and the moment you start spending more time putting out fires the less likely you'll have time to over-deliver.

Not all projects are gonna be your calling card, do a great job on the ones that aren't and a better job on the ones that are.

Just like a mix: "A mix is never finished, it is abandoned."

Knowing precisely when things are no longer going to get better (just different) and moving on is a key to keeping people happy. This happens throughout the whole project.


Own a cattle prod.

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Fibes
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rankus

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2006, 05:56:08 PM »

Fibes wrote on Mon, 13 November 2006 21:10



Lately we've been so swamped we can't keep up, it's causing problems, starting fires and the moment you start spending more time putting out fires the less likely you'll have time to over-deliver.





A wise biz mentor of mine said that once you get to this point you have two options:  

One, is to expand... add more bricks and mortar, more staff etc. (dangerous see below)

Two, is to increase your prices... this will cull your client bases and allow you to spend more time with each client as they are spending more, and it also increases income... Also you are working with the wealthier clients who likely have wealthy contacts and you will find yourself rubbing up against more influential people in your industry... (#2 is my path... In case your biz has a downturn you are not stuck with more real-estate than you can afford, and be forced out of biz)

Fibes wrote on Mon, 13 November 2006 21:10



Not all projects are gonna be your calling card, do a great job on the ones that aren't and a better job on the ones that are.




I have learned this the hard way.  You must "pick your battles"...
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Fletcher

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2006, 12:32:49 PM »

Die BREMSSPUR wrote on Fri, 10 November 2006 19:35

I meant, record for money, meaning shit I don't like or don't believe in.


I sat on a panel with Steve Albini a few years ago when he made an analogy to doing what we do to the best of our ability with complete and total emotional/judgmental detachment.

The analogy was something along the lines of a hetero man who is a gynecologist likes snatch as much as any other hetero man... but you don't want that gynecologist making any kind of value judgment on your wife or sister's anatomy.  They are to view the pussy with complete emotional detachment, do their work and move on [no matter how luscious or repulsive the fore mentioned anatomy might be].

With that said... I often pick and choose my gigs by what I like and don't like, but I usually do those gigs for free or damn cheap so in order to get me motivated to donate my time the project has to be something I feel is worthy of that donation.  As far as "paying gigs" go, I for one will take any gig where the money is right no matter what the project... and I will do it to the absolute best of my ability... its "volunteer" work where I feel I have a right to pass judgment as I am being asked to be a contributor to the financial aspect of the music's production.

I hope this makes some sense...
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

danickstr

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2006, 12:33:04 AM »

It's been a while since I really tried to answer a question from a completely serious POV, so here goes:

The temptation to help an artist that one thinks is worth the trouble is often brought back to reality when egos collide.  I think that in your case you have more talent than you probably give yourself credit for and this gives you bargaining power if you choose to use it.  

Before you donate your time because you believe in something, perhaps it is best to hypothesize about what will happen when there are creative differences.  This way, you can get artists to show their hand before you start giving up your valuable time and energy only to find out later that unless you are their glorified monkey, they are going to think you have cheated them of their vision.

What you are betting on in most cases is just getting paid, if there is a success (realistically low odds).  At least the days of them taking it to a label and redoing it so you get nothing are about over, except in the most rare of circumstances, but this is only a peripheral point.

Are the people worth giving of yourself?  Talent is not the question either.  Character is what is really what is on the scales when we donate ourselves to someone's vision.  If you don't think they respect your potential contribution, then send them along, regardless of their talent.  Lots of assholes have talent, and I don't want to subject myself to assholes, regardless of the monetary or fame potential.  They are not worth it.
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Fletcher

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2006, 01:39:19 PM »

danickstr wrote on Thu, 16 November 2006 00:33

I don't want to subject myself to assholes, regardless of the monetary or fame potential.  They are not worth it.


IV-I!!!!
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Die BREMSSPUR

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2006, 04:46:59 PM »

Jesus H. Ca-Reist...Nick...

That's worth framing...

tanx...

tik







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Fletcher

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2006, 08:26:49 AM »

I will add that there are different kinds of "assholes".  Over the past couple of months I have worked with 2 "semi-famous" guys.  Both care more about th tone and texture of the audio presentation more than the average client and both have driven the "quest" to achieve the audio they wanted to hear more than the average client.

In both situations I've thought I've had something pretty good but they are hearing something else in their mind and push me pretty hard in order to achieve their goals.  Interestingly, the similarity ends there.  One is an asshole, one is not.

The one that is not an asshole seems to appreciate the hard work and uses whatever descriptive terms he can to describe what he is hearing that he doesn't love and the other will say things like "it sucks" without further elaboration.

Both of these clients are concerned with the budget, but one who isn't an asshole seems more concerned about the music and the end product.  The one who is an asshole gets into this 'nickel and dime' bullshit that hangs over the sessions like a black cloud.  The one who isn't an asshole has gone out of his way to do things for me... it seems his motivation for doing these things stem from both gratitude for my effort(s) and friendship.  

The one that is an asshole has played the stuff I recorded for him for everyone of his friends who will listen, other engineers, etc. while saying it sucks [the reason I know this is that a guitar player friend of mine called me up to hire me for a gig he was doing because no matter how much the asshole tried to convince him it sucked, he loved the way it was put together and wants me to do an album for him!!]... reverse favor not taken as a favor because the inital premise was that my work sucked.

Now I know that there are lots of times when my work does indeed suck ass, and I totally believe that the guy feels that the work I did for him sucks... my beef is that he is running all over town trying to convince the world [or at least guys who could be potential clients] that I suck, and that he's right and he shouldn't have to pay for the tracks [which were recorded last July... and of course, remain unpaid].  The bitch of the beast is that I have no problem with the guy not paying for the tracks if he isn't going to use them... but it appears that he is going to use them which is going to come to a head with what I anticipate being a very nasty legal battle.

The guy that isn't an asshole is going to manage to get my ass off the couch this Sunday afternoon... not watch the football on TV and go into work to help him achieve his sonic quest.  There are damn few people who are paying me as little as he is that would get the time of day on a Sunday never mind getting me to go fire up the studio and work on my designated day of rest.

Same "problem", different approaches to the solution of that problem.  Both are actually very cool people until you work with them side by side... it is only then that one turns into a walking pile of human feces and the other gets me to go in on a Sunday to help him find the vocal tone for which he has been searching for weeks on end.

I hope this makes sense!
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

steve p

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2006, 03:16:15 AM »

danickstr wrote on Fri, 10 November 2006 15:56

maybe I missed the boat, but you are saying that you do not charge for your recording services?  I am confused. Confused



People get paid to do this ???    Laughing  


Ive been to Peoria......... Scary man,








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danickstr

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Re: A good record compared to competent business
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2006, 09:43:19 PM »

It makes sense to me.  Tact and politeness and RESPECT for what someone does go a damn long way in my book, and someone bitching about money and saying "it sucks" is not just a dark cloud but a fart cloud that has arms legs and a mouth.  Probably farty breath too. Twisted Evil
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Nick Dellos - MCPE  

Food for thought for the future:              http://http://www.kurzweilai.net/" target="_blank">http://www.kurzweilai.net/www.physorg.com
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