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Author Topic: UK Bass trap materials  (Read 4095 times)

ruffrecords

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UK Bass trap materials
« on: October 22, 2006, 12:12:01 pm »

I want to build some bass traps for my studio. There are plenty of designs around but they are mostly based on US materials. OK, wood and the like is no problem here in the UK but my problem is finding the right acoustic filler material. There are plenty of builder's merchants and stores that are the equivalent of Home Depot but I need to make sure I ask for the right stuff. Anyone help me?

Ian
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maccool

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2006, 05:27:40 pm »

Ian, this is a real bitch when all the DIY info talks Corning 703 which is almost unavailable in the UK.  Knauf's Rocksilk slabs seem to be the solution.  Unfortunately, most of the suppliers I contacted were pretty thick and couldn't  get their heads around what I I wanted the material for.  Ask for rockwool slabs, that'll get you started. I had trouble finding 25mm slabs for some broadband absorbers but found it eventually.  50mm should be readily available.
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ruffrecords

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2006, 11:47:24 am »

maccool wrote on Sun, 22 October 2006 22:27

Ian, this is a real bitch when all the DIY info talks Corning 703 which is almost unavailable in the UK.  Knauf's Rocksilk slabs seem to be the solution.  Unfortunately, most of the suppliers I contacted were pretty thick and couldn't  get their heads around what I wanted the material for.  Ask for rockwool slabs, that'll get you started. I had trouble finding 25mm slabs for some broadband absorbers but found it eventually.  50mm should be readily available.

That's interesting, maybe we could use the suppliers themselves as they are so thick  Very Happy

Your mentioning of Rockwool slabs is interesting. A while back I looked at Rockwool and their web site shows a number of slab products designed for reducing sound transmission through walls but there is nothing specific about any other acoustic application. Are these the ones you mean? However, it did say you can get them in the UK from Wickes and I know there is a Wickes near me in Norwich.

Cheers

Ian
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Teddy G.

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2006, 05:30:56 pm »

I would quote who I believe mentioned this, but, as I'm not exactly sure, maybe he will chime-in here to claim his words?

Anyway, "something like" fiberglass/rockwool/mineral wool are, at least accoustically, the same", or at least substitutable to a great degree, even though the materials may be different. Inotherwords,look through what you CAN find and you'll probably come up with things too similar to worry about their differences(Possibly even structurally "better", for YOUR purposes, than the "standard" Corning 7-0-whatever?).

BTW: At least in the US, and even in my rather small city, there is at least one very large "accoustics" firm! Suppliers(I'm sure mostly) to commercial, industrial and construction firms, but hey, your money spends the same. Actually(With tiny quantities of special plastics, for instance) a call to a friendly salesperson at these kinds of normally large volume wholesalers, with my "story" has resulted in "scraps", etc. that I have been able to get for next to nothing to free("Haul it away!"). Anyway, don't ignore the wholesalers and professional construction suppliers just because you only want a few pieces of this or that.

Also, don't forget that our needs are NOT so special! Corning and other giants would never have developed this stuff "just for us". Accoustics are accoustics and a competent sales person can recommend and sell you just what you need, possibly helping with design and even recommending firms to design/install, if desired, no matter your size or budget - or at least able to recommend a dealer(They are his customers) who can sell you the stuff to do it yourself.

Finally, let's not restrict ourselves to the incredibly limited variety offered(Despite their big buildings) by the Depots and Marts of the world. There are(At least for now) lots of other, better, places to shop...

TG    
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maccool

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2006, 06:01:48 pm »

Ian,
This stuff is RockSilk, but their prices are high;  Wickes should be able to get what you need for much less.
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franman

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2006, 08:21:49 pm »

Finding Rigid Fiberglass Boards can be a challenge, even over here in the states. This is not Home Depot materials... what you're looking for is:

unfaced Rigid Fiberglass Insulation Boards generally 2" (5cm) thick at 3-5lb/CF  or 48KG/CM to 6 lb/CF or 98KG/CM. We have to go to specialty Insulation suppliers over here in the NY area   Mad .... Hope this helps..
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ruffrecords

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2006, 01:09:33 pm »

franman wrote on Wed, 25 October 2006 01:21

Finding Rigid Fiberglass Boards can be a challenge, even over here in the states. This is not Home Depot materials... what you're looking for is:

unfaced Rigid Fiberglass Insulation Boards generally 2" (5cm) thick at 3-5lb/CF  or 48KG/CM to 6 lb/CF or 98KG/CM. We have to go to specialty Insulation suppliers over here in the NY area   Mad .... Hope this helps..

Yes, that's useful. I have been looking at Ethan's web site to get some rough parameters for density and absorption vs frequency so as to be able to compare locally available stuff. I was struggling converting Ethan's 6 lb/cuft into Kgm/cm which all the European stuff is described in, but 98 is comfortably close to the 95 I calculated.

It looks like Rockwool is the most likely to be available with relative ease. They do acoustic partition slabs but only quote absorption and not density figures. A 47mm thick slab has an absorption of 0.2 and a 67mm thick slab has 0.3 both at 125Hz which is about as good as Corning 703 but only about half as good as 705.

They do some regular slab insulation though which seems much better. The nearest equivalents to Corning 703/705 seems to be RW3 and RW5 with densities of 60Kg/cm and 100KG/cm respectively. The data sheet says RW3 is particularly recommend for use in sound studios. The low frequency absorption figures do not seem to be as good as those quoted by Ethan for Corning but I am going to assume density is the primary determinant of low frequency absorption (that's what Ethan say too). So I'll get a pack of each and try them out.

One last question - Ethan's absorption tables contain values greater than 1. Rockwool's defines absorption to lie between 0 and 1 so figures greater that 1 cannot exist. Does Ethan use a different measure?

Cheers

Ian
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Ethan Winer

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2006, 03:11:14 pm »

Ian,

> I was struggling converting Ethan's 6 lb/cuft into Kgm/cm which all the European stuff is described in, but 98 is comfortably close to the 95 I calculated. <

Yes, and my Acoustics FAQ lists the density both ways. I use the fabulous freeware Metric convertor available here:

http://vaibhavweb.tripod.com/programs.htm#mc

> Ethan's absorption tables contain values greater than 1. Rockwool's defines absorption to lie between 0 and 1 so figures greater that 1 cannot exist. Does Ethan use a different measure? <

There are a few reason absorption coefficients can wind up greater than 1.0, but the main one is the panel's edge surface. This article on the RealTraps site explains it in detail:

http://www.realtraps.com/art_measure.htm

--Ethan

ruffrecords

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2006, 05:21:02 am »

Ethan Winer wrote on Wed, 25 October 2006 20:11


There are a few reason absorption coefficients can wind up greater than 1.0, but the main one is the panel's edge surface.

Thanks for the pointer - I expect Rockwool uses a different test method as their results never exceed 1.0 even at high frequencies which may explain why their values are slightly lower than Corning's for the same density material.

Ian
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Ethan Winer

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 01:24:40 pm »

ruffrecords wrote on Thu, 26 October 2006 05:21

I expect Rockwool uses a different test method as their results never exceed 1.0 even at high frequencies which may explain why their values are slightly lower than Corning's for the same density material.


Yes, I believe in Europe they simply truncate values greater than 1.0, which I happen to disagree with because it unfairly masks the advantage of thicker panels.

--Ethan

mr jason

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2006, 12:23:08 am »

I got my slabs from Studiospares. There's no Wickes near me, and they often have to order slabs in. I'm not far from you, in Bury St Edmunds.
I checked prices in loads of places, and after initially thinking Studiospares were expensive, and making sure I was comparing "like-for-like" in the end their price was pretty reasonable, and it was handy to get them delivered rather than driving to another town to get them from somewhere else.
They're Rockwool RW3, 50mm deep, and 1metre by 60cm.

I got 2 packs, and made 4 acoustic clouds, and a some corner traps. I'm really pleased with them.

ruffrecords

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Re: UK Bass trap materials
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2006, 01:13:17 pm »

mr jason wrote on Sat, 28 October 2006 05:23

I got my slabs from Studiospares. There's no Wickes near me, and they often have to order slabs in. I'm not far from you, in Bury St Edmunds.
I checked prices in loads of places, and after initially thinking Studiospares were expensive, and making sure I was comparing "like-for-like" in the end their price was pretty reasonable, and it was handy to get them delivered rather than driving to another town to get them from somewhere else.
They're Rockwool RW3, 50mm deep, and 1metre by 60cm.

I got 2 packs, and made 4 acoustic clouds, and a some corner traps. I'm really pleased with them.

Doh! Why didn't I think of Studiospares. I just checked their web site and the 8 pack is only
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