R/E/P > Dan Lavry

Summing

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dobster:
i've been seeing some arguments that sending tracks directly to a/d outputs from within a DAW sounds/sums better than sending tracks to a bus or master bus and then to the a/d output.
isn't it all 1's and 0's? any validity to this?

danlavry:
dobster wrote on Wed, 18 October 2006 03:29
i've been seeing some arguments that sending tracks directly to a/d outputs from within a DAW sounds/sums better than sending tracks to a bus or master bus and then to the a/d output.
isn't it all 1's and 0's? any validity to this?


Did you mean to say DA (instead of AD?)

Regards
Dan Lavry

dobster:
yes dan, absolutely. my mistake..apologies. I meant D/A, thanks for the oversight

i've been seeing some arguments that sending tracks directly to d/a outputs from within a DAW sounds/sums better than sending tracks to a bus or master bus in the DAW and then to the d/a output.
isn't it all 1's and 0's? any validity to this?

danlavry:
dobster wrote on Thu, 19 October 2006 00:31
yes dan, absolutely. my mistake..apologies. I meant D/A, thanks for the oversight

i've been seeing some arguments that sending tracks directly to d/a outputs from within a DAW sounds/sums better than sending tracks to a bus or master bus in the DAW and then to the d/a output.
isn't it all 1's and 0's? any validity to this?


The question itself is about subjective opinions and tastes - what "sounds better". I can not answer it in a subjective manner. I can see a lot of explanations as to why one may prefer the summing done in the analog world. They may like a particular sound of a DA, an analog mixer, and AD... I also heard some people preferring the smooth response and feel of the analog sliders (compared to on screen sliders and knobs).

If your question is strictly about summing, then it is difficult for me to see any validity to arguments against doing it in the digital domain. Once the data is in the digital domain, summing in digital eliminates the need for additional DA, analog mix and AD processing, which can only cause more deviation from the original waveform.

But if the question goes beyond summing, and some of the processing is done in analog (beyond just summing), then we are getting into comparing analog processing to digital processing. As a rule, linear processing (such as summing, EQ, re-verb...) is well suited for digital work. At the same time, any processing that calls for non linearity (such as compression, limiting, tube emulation...) may be better in analog, because a non linear processing in digital generates alias energy, which is very non musical. I am not condemning all non linear digital processing, but I am suggesting that it needs to be "carefully evaluated". While compression in digital may or may not be OK (implementation dependent), hard limiting in digital is probably bad news no matter what you do to try and fix it...

But even the above comments may not stand up to "what sounds good". For me, high degree of aliasing is always real bad news. The alias energy, unlike harmonics of musical instruments, does not fall on frequencies that are multiple of the fundamental pitch. So it sounds horrible to me, but in fact even that is a subjective opinion.

Regards
Dan Lavry
http://www.lavryengineering.com        

dobster:
Dan thanks for the response

I know my question is easily confused with "digital summing vs. analog summing: which is better?" But, I'm actually not concerned with summing "outside the box" but whether or not summing tracks through bus's ITB is a good idea or not. And by that I mean, should bussing be kept to a minimum? Some of the advocates for NOT using bus's in the DAW claim that the audio sounds "mushier" and/or smaller than simply letting the tracks  in the DAW sum to the D/A (the track outputs directly to an output). Is there any validity to this? Does that process even exist? In other words, is the summing happening in the DAW at all times anyway when one remains digital? There is no summing at the converters? Just, conversion to analog for monitoring?

You have though, in your response, sparked another question that I might as well ask now.

You, having said this...

" At the same time, any processing that calls for non linearity (such as compression, limiting, tube emulation...) may be better in analog, because a non linear processing in digital generates alias energy, which is very non musical."

I'd like to know then, how would you feel about the idea of recording the output of a digital track in the DAW with some type of non-linear processing plugin in realtime? I guess I'm asking, do non-linear processes only present alias artifacts when processed digitally and rendered? Or do they also present those artifacts while audio is playing through the plugin listening to it in realtime? Regardless, if so or if not, is there any benefit to letting audio play through the plugin and capturing that realtime playback back into the DAW? Assuming of course and putting aside the question are the converters worth it, etc. This is directed strictly towards the process in and of itself
thanks

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