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[LDT2]

Harvey,

I know you're probably tired of these questions, but, as many I respect your opinion and expertice greatly. I know that you've used and liked the MXL V77 tube mic as well as many others. I recently got a V77 brand new and also love it. Now my question...

If the V69 is "similar" to a U47 and a T3 is "similar to a C12 or E251, which I consider opposite ends of the spectrum, generally speaking, where would the V77 "fit in"?

I know some have compared it to a Neuman M149, but I don't know where that lands either.

Is it "closer" to the brighter, transparent mic's or to the darker, more colored mic's? Or somewhere in between?

I'd like to get a V69, which I believe you've said in the past has a different "sound" than the V77. But I'd also like to get a brighter mic that is more in the C12-E251 area. I don't have the budget for the Hi-end mic's, so I'd like to get something with that flavor in the price range of the MXL, Studio Projects stuff. I've also looked at the JM47a but don't know if I'd want that over the V69.

I currently have...

MXL V77
Studio Projects B1 & B3
AKG C3000B (I know, I'm trying to replace this)

I also have some dynamics and small diaphram condensers, but this is mainly about vocal mic's and having a variety to use for different voices and situations.

Any enlightenment you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for all the knowledge that you've shared over the years.

Lucio

[hargerst]

The V77 is a very nice neutral sounding mic.  The V69 has a little more forward sounding bottom end, but not as much as the V67.

Here's a track where I used the V77 on female vocal.  The keyboard was a Kurzweil going direct, and the sax was thru a Shure SM7.  It was the end of the night and the singer asked if anybody knew this song.  The piano player said, "What key?" - and I hit record.  The singer is Barbara Dane; she was in her 70's when I recorded this in 2001:

http://itrstudio.com/pallet.mp3

I should also point out that Barbara did most of her Capitol albums in the 60's using a U47.  I think the 77 does a nice job on her voice.  No pop screen was used.

[James Duncan]

Wow Harvey, that was very cool... thanks for sharing that!

[Trumpetman2]

hargerst wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 00:54

The V77 is a very nice neutral sounding mic.  The V69 has a little more forward sounding bottom end, but not as much as the V67. Here's a track where I used the V77 on female vocal.  The keyboard was a Kurzweil going direct, and the sax was thru a Shure SM7.  It was the end of the night and the singer asked if anybody knew this song.  The piano player said, "What key?" - and I hit record.  The singer is Barbara Dane; she was in her 70's when I recorded this in 2001: http://itrstudio.com/pallet.mp3 I should also point out that Barbara did most of her Capitol albums in the 60's using a U47.  I think the 77 does a nice job on her voice.  No pop screen was used.

Harvey:  VERY NICE!  can I ask what your chain was for vox and the sax?  Great sound!!!

[hargerst]

Trumpetman2 wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 07:46

Harvey:  VERY NICE!  can I ask what your chain was for vox and the sax?  Great sound!!!

You're gonna be disappointed; I play by the same rules I espouse here:

Vocals: MXL V77 > Soundtracs Topaz (board preamp and eq) > RNC w/ light compression > Lexicon Alex (Setting #10 - Vocal Plate) > Tascam DA38.  (Earlier, I had tried my RCA 77DX on Barbara's voice, but it didn't sound right, so I switched to the V77 and it worked.)

Sax: Shure SM7 > Soundtracs Topaz (board preamp and eq) > Lexicon Alex (Setting #10 - Vocal Plate) > Tascam DA38

There might also be a Roland Boss SE-50 on both (that I added during mixdown), set for extra reverb (patch #22).

As I said, this was an end of session recording; the drummer had already left, Jeff Barnes (the saxplayer) and Dave (the bass player) were packing up, when Barbara asked if anybody knew "Make Me A Pallet On Your Floor".  

Lee Tamboulien, the keyboard player, was the only one who hadn't unplugged yet, since he was in the control room with me and Barbara, talking. Barbara was sitting at the console with the V77, and Lee had his keyboard set up right next to the console.

You can hear Jeff Barnes, the sax player, come in on the second verse in the complete version, not by choice, but because it took Jeff that long to unpack his sax. The SM7 was used during the regular session as a talkback mic and Jeff simply pulled it down a bit closer to his sax. I had already unplugged the 421 I used for the sax during the regular session.

This was recorded in Studio B, our small room (roughly 11'W x 12'L x7'H).  The control room is a little smaller.  Also, keep in mind that this was recorded in a double-wide mobile home, with no sound considerations, except for wall treatments, consisting of office dividers (that we picked up from a dumpster), hung flat on the walls.  

Barbara and Lee listened to the main speakers as we recorded (no phones).  Jeff, Dave, and I were all on headphones.

[hargerst]

Whoops, I should clarify: Effects, eq, and compression were NOT used during tracking, except for feeds to headphones.  The tracks were recorded flat and dry.  

Why?  

Because it makes it easier for me to punch in stuff at a later date if necessary.  I might use a little compression if someone is all over the place with dynamics, but I rarely record effects, or mess with eq, while tracking.  

I guess I just don't trust myself to make eq and effects decisions during tracking, without knowing how all the other later parts are gonna work together.

I usually have the Lexicon Alex (set to either #6 or #10), and the Boss SE-50 (set to #22 for vocals, or #11 for chorused guitars) hooked up for phone feeds.

[LDT2]

Harvey,

Thanks for such a quick reply and the great clip!

So when you say "neutral sounding", are you talking unhyped as far as brightness.etc or in terms of mic texture/color?

Would you consider the V77 to be as bright as a SP T3 or C12?

I'm trying to decide if I would need to buy something like the T3 or if the V77 covers that territory already. Know what I mean?

I love the way the V77 sounds on the right voices, but I don't have a reference to compare it to these other "brighter" mic's.

Thanks,

Lucio

[hargerst]

Lucio,

Yes, I consider the V77 to be fairly neutral and unhyped.  If you want to add a nice sheen to the top end (without the harshness typical of a lot of inexpensive imported mics), the Studio Projects T3 is a wonderful choice, in my opinion.

[LDT2]

Harvey,

Excellent!! I just don't have the $$$ to buy "redundant" sounding mic's, but I am looking for something darker and brighter that the V77 to cover all bases, so to speak.
So the V69 and the T3 should do it.

Thanks again I really appreciate it,

Lucio

[Trumpetman2]

Quote:

You're gonna be disappointed; I play by the same rules I espouse here: Vocals: MXL V77 > Soundtracs Topaz (board preamp and eq) > RNC w/ light compression > Lexicon Alex (Setting #10 - Vocal Plate) > Tascam DA38.  (Earlier, I had tried my RCA 77DX on Barbara's voice, but it didn't sound right, so I switched to the V77 and it worked.) Sax: Shure SM7 > Soundtracs Topaz (board preamp and eq) > Lexicon Alex (Setting #10 - Vocal Plate) > Tascam DA38

Harvey:  man, more to your credit as an AE....that you achieved such good results w/minimal gear.  Its uncanny, but my chain is very similar - I now have the Soundtracs Topaz (although a very small one; 12-4) and I also track onto a DA38!  Not using any compression going in though....have an RNC, might try it...thanks again for the great info and music!!

[emerrill]

I'll chime in and say that I have had great luck with the V77. I find it less bright than even that V69, which I never liked. It's actually the only LDC from the MXL/Studio Projects line that I find myself using over and over.

[LDT2]

emerrill wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 15:58

I'll chime in and say that I have had great luck with the V77. I find it less bright than even that V69, which I never liked. It's actually the only LDC from the MXL/Studio Projects line that I find myself using over and over.

Really? I'd always heard that the V77 was brighter than the V69. That's interesting, I guess I'll have to do a side by side in the music store and see.  


Thanks for the input,

Lucio

[emerrill]

I've never done a side by side comparison but that was my experience. I had some RF problems with the 69 that kept me from ever using it much. Upon reflection I realize that I should have left my statement as endorsement of the 77 rather than a comparison to others. It's very nice and has continued to be quite useful even though I now have access to much costlier mikes.

The RF problems were unique to my situation, I believe, and I don't think they're common to the microphone.

good luck with it.

[rankus]

Sweet clip Harv!  In her seventies eh?  We may have to re-think this "youth" thing... Perhaps it's over-rated.

[ricknroll]

LDT2 wrote on Thu, 12 October 2006 20:37

If the V69 is "similar" to a U47 and a T3 is "similar to a C12 or E251, which I consider opposite ends of the spectrum, generally speaking, where would the V77 "fit in"?

I don't know anything about the V77, but I can tell you the V69ME does not sound similar to a U47, at least not a properly working VF14 U47.

Rick

[LDT2]

Rick (ricknroll-cool forum name),

I've read a few reviews and forum replies that compared the V69 with the U47. I realize that it won't sound exactly like a U47, but  seeing that I'll never own the real thing, I'm trying to find something in a "similar" flavor, so to speak. Darker, warmer, whatever.

I know that Harvey, while specifying that they don't sound the same, has said that the V69/V67/JM47 had "similar" characteristics to the U47 (generally speaking), which is all I'm after, being realistic.

I appreciate your input into this, as it's very difficult for those of us who can't get near the real thing. That's why Harvey ( and you in this instance) are such a help.

Thanks,

Lucio

[hargerst]

With the right voice, you could have someone speak into a U47, and say, "Hello, this is God talking.", and many people would agree that it was indeed God talking. You don't get that "bigger than life" sound with a lot of today's mics; they're overly bright and edgy.  

The MXL V67 (and their 960) and the Joe Meeks JM47 have that kinda sound, to my ear at least.

It won't do it for every voice or for every song, but when it does work, it works great, at least to my ear, it does.

At the stupidly low prices they charge for all these mics, I really don't understand why someone doesn't have them in their mic locker, just for those special times when they are just the right mic for the job.

[LDT2]

Harvey,

So would you say that all those mic's are different enough to own all of them, or is there one that would kinda cover that area by itself?

Also, would you not include the V69 in that list?  

Would you consider the V69 brighter than the V77, as mentioned by emerrill on the last page?

Sorry for all the questions, but I just really respect your opinion and experience to make good choices for mic's in this price range.

Thanks so much,

Lucio

[hargerst]

Studio Projects is closing out some JM47 "B" stock for $100.  That's a no-brainer for me - I'm ordering one tomorrow.

The V67 is dirt cheap on eBay and that's also pretty nice to own.

The 960 is just a cool-looking mic and even though inside, it's similar to a V69, it doesn't sound the same, and it's also very cheap.

The V69 is just a damn good mic.  It's different than the V77, but I'm happy I have both.  The 77 is a little more neutral; the V69 has more "color" (whatever the hell that means).

But they're all great sounding mics, IMO.

And the ADK Hamburg fits into this group very nicely.

[LDT2]

Harvey,

Man, those are some great prices on those mic's! I think I'll just grab them as I can (aka, as the money comes in).

I've definately seen how different mic's work on different voices in the studio, so it can't hurt to have different "colors" to use, especially as affordable as these mic's are.

Thanks for taking the time to help me out,

Lucio

[ricknroll]

LDT2 wrote on Wed, 18 October 2006 14:03

I've read a few reviews and forum replies that compared the V69 with the U47. I realize that it won't sound exactly like a U47, but  seeing that I'll never own the real thing, I'm trying to find something in a "similar" flavor, so to speak. Darker, warmer, whatever.

Lucio,

I know the Tape Op review of the V69 mentioned recording an acoustic guitar with several other mics, including a U47, but at least that review didn't claim that the V69 sounded like the U47.  And I don't think Harvey has specifically claimed that either.  Besides, I don't give much weight to magazine reviews - I want to hear the thing for myself.  I'm sure we've all read in a cheap mic review something like, "The model XXX faired well against the U47/C12 I compared it to, which is impressive considering XXX costs one tenth the cost of a vintage blah, blah, blah."  I'm lucky to be in the position where I can borrow a couple of different U47s when I want to, and the V69 doesn't sound anything like a U47.  I realize most of us will never own a U47, but so far, I haven't used another mic that really sounds like one.  To be fair, I haven't used any of the U47 knock-offs like the ones made by Soundelux, Peluso, Lawson, etc.  The closest-sounding mic I have is a U47 FET, but it's obviously not the same as a VF14 U47.

If I were to buy a cheap LDC now, I would much rather get the V67 than the V69 (this based on my experience owning both).  The V69 has what I consider a nasty overly hyped high end that seems typical of many cheap LDCs, whereas the V67 is more balanced in comparison.  Also, the noise floor of the V69 is surprisingly high (although I wouldn't have been surprised by this if I had bothered to read the specs before buying one).  Replacing the tube with a tested NOS one helped the noise floor in mine a bit, but it's still the noisiest LDC I own.  I haven't used it in probably a year, and the only reason I still own it is I've been too lazy to put it up on eBay.  The whole tube thing is kind of silly in that mic, since it's a hybrid tube/FET transformerless design, which doesn't resemble the topology of the classic tube mics.  If I wanted to get a cheap bright LDC, I'd rather go with the Studio Projects B1 (I used to have one but sold it).  Cheaper, and in my opinion, sounds better than the V69.  Obviously everyone has to listen to the mics themselves and make up their own minds.

Rick

[LDT2]

Rick,

Yeh, those reviews can sometimes be misleading. I realize that the V69 won't sound like a U47 and by your testimony it doesn't seem that there's too much that will. I guess I'm looking for something that gets near that sound character (terminology for describing sound is very difficult, we need a standard so we all know what each other is talking about).

Now I did a side by side in the music store with the V69 and V67 and thought that the V67 was kinda muffled sounding in the upper mids which I can also hear on alot of clips that I've listened to online. I guess it just depends on what you're looking for in a mic.

I have a couple SP B1's and they sound great on some vocals and not so great on others. That's why I'm trying to find some different tools to use for different voices.

What kind of music do you usually record?

I get quite a variety of stuff here but it is usually commercial in nature. In other words, they want it to sound like current radio music, which calls for more agressive compression and pretty bright mixes. Also unfortunately for me, alot of times I working with less than idea talent, so I'm always trying to do "magic", if you know what I mean.

I'm starting to wonder more about getting the MXL960 tube mic that Harvey's been talking about. He said that it doesn't have the sheen that the V69 has, I don't know, I'd love to have 'em all but I just don't have the budget for that at this time. I guess this is "paying your dues" in a studio setting.

Thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

Lucio

[hargerst]

Lucio,

I don't understand the problem.  You're in Nashville, right?  There's a studio on every damn street corner there.  Rent an hour in one of the cheap places (that has a decent selection of mics) and try all their mics till you find the mic that works for you.

[LDT2]

Harvey,

You know I never thought of that. Sometimes the most obvious thing you miss. I guess I'm so focused on where I spend my money, but that would certainly save in the long run. I'll check around and see who has what and do just that.

Thanks again,

Lucio

[hargerst]

You might contact our own Dave Martin; he certainly knows what's going on in Nashville.

[LDT2]

Harvey,

Thanks for the ideas, I really appreciate it.

Lucio

[ricknroll]

LDT2 wrote on Sat, 21 October 2006 09:05

What kind of music do you usually record? I get quite a variety of stuff here but it is usually commercial in nature. In other words, they want it to sound like current radio music, which calls for more agressive compression and pretty bright mixes. Also unfortunately for me, alot of times I working with less than idea talent, so I'm always trying to do "magic", if you know what I mean.

Lucio,

I usually record rock, but a little classical on ocassion.  I went through a series of inexpensive mics made by Rode, MXL, Oktava, and Studio Projects, thinking I could get close to the sound of more expensive mics, but when I compared those to some of the classics, I realized that for my ears at least, the cheap mics just don't come close to that great sound.  Coincidentally, I'm auditioning a U67 tonight that is allegedly in excellent condition...my own experience with gear has been that you get what you pay for, at least for most things (I do own a few RNCs and an RNLA, after all).

Rick

[LDT2]

Rick,

I'm sure that you're right. Part of me is afraid to hear the better mic's 'cuz I'm sure that I'll hear the difference too and then I'm screwed for the gear that I can actually afford.

I have to to it though, so I'll have a reference to strive for.

Tell us how the U67 sounds if you get a chance.

Lucio

[Trumpetman2]

  Harvey:  You like the Jomeek JM47; how does the JM37DP compare?  These are being sold for $110 and has multi-modes...

[hargerst]

I haven't had a chance to try the JM37 yet; they just got here.

[ricknroll]

LDT2 wrote on Wed, 25 October 2006 14:42

Tell us how the U67 sounds if you get a chance.

Lucio,

The U67 was sounded good, although they're a bit dark sounding, apparently because of the negative feedback used in the circuit.  I did some vocal recording with the U67 and then compared that to my Klaus-modded U87, and to be honest, I prefered the U87.  I did want to buy the U67, with the intention of having Klaus work his magic on it, but there was another guy who was willing to spend about $600 more than me on the mic, so I didn't get it.  If you ever get a chance to hear a U87 Klaus has worked on, take it - they are very nice mics.

Rick

[LDT2]

Rick,

I've heard about the Klaus-modded U87's but never heard one in person, but would definately if the opportunity arrises.  So the U67's are darker than the 87's, good to know.  

Yeah, I've got to take Harvey's advice and check out all these mic's for myself.

Thanks for checking back in, I appreciate it.

Lucio

[Han S.]

I wonder why the V77 got discontinued, for this is the best mic MXL has made so far.

Yesterday I had a jazzband and I've used the V77 on trumpet and the V69 on T-bone, together with ribbons on both. I always track trumpets, reeds and T-bones with two mics to two tracks.

The sax/clarinet was recorded with a M260 and an M149.

Anyway, the V77 did very well on Tpt and the V69 sounds really big on T-bone.

I'd like to have some five V77's at least, in my opinion they're better than most mics of chinese origine.

[hargerst]

Han S. wrote on Sat, 04 November 2006 16:14

I wonder why the V77 got discontinued, for this is the best mic MXL has made so far.

As I understand it, MXL first started out with mics made at various Chinese mic factories.  When they became a little more successful, they started their own facility in China.  The V77 was made by somebody else, so it got dropped.  

They were thinking about reintroducing the V77, but it hasn't gotten much further than the talking stage - at least, as far as I know.

I'm not privy to their plans for new or reissue microphones.