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[minister]

i don't know whatall makes these things go up and down, but i'd sure bet it has more to do with the AVID video editing system losing market share to Final Cut Pro, rather than anything to do with Pro Tools.  it is INSANE how many legal and illegal copies of FInal Cut are out there.  only the high end places have AVID's here.  and they MUST have at least one FCP edit bay.  they lose business to the producer or freelance editor who can install FCP on their mac and charge less $$....

look at the films that are being touted as 'Edited in FCP'.  i just gave a seminar on sound for a film that i did using Apple products...the regional 'Pro Film & Video' sales rep from Apple was there and he was very aggressive about talking about their produts and pushing Soundtrack Pro (ha, ha!) and Final Cut....he also talked about how big FCP is becoming and they are puting a lot of marketing $$ into letting people know you can get 'A Big Hollywood Look' with off-the-shelf products from Apple.

i also know from talking to Product Managers at DIGI (who speak rather candidly to me) that they sure as shit watch their competition very closely. they have operating copies of Nuendo, Logic, Cubase, Pyramix, SAW studio etc... in house.  not saying that they can't improve  jus' saying i think it is a mistake to think this has that much to do with pro tools.

as to bashers, there sure as shit a bunch of them...  i don't use Nuendo, but i don't BASH people for using it or the product itself.  it has some cools features.  in fact, you can go onto the Nuendo Forum and see people saying that people are lazy and stupid for using Pro Tools....  even though they are, i am sure, the exception, they are very vocal.  as a (small) studio owner, i look at everything that is available to me and make a decision based on what i can aford and i think i will need.  all the DAW's have something to offer.

[Fibes]

I see DSD in the future, or something.

[Jerry Tubb]

Tomas Danko wrote on Fri, 29 September 2006 05:49

Fibes wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 14:47 Hello my name is Fibes and I have been Pro Tools free for 15 years. I do not believe you. You can't have been Pro Tools free for 15 years. Pro Tools free didn't EXIST 15 years ago!

In fact Pro Tools v1 (shudder) wasn't released till '92 or so.

edit: Fibes is saying he has been Pro Tools "free"... not using Pro Tools (the free or any other version)!

[Fibes]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 29 September 2006 11:18

Tomas Danko wrote on Fri, 29 September 2006 05:49 Fibes wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 14:47 Hello my name is Fibes and I have been Pro Tools free for 15 years. I do not believe you. You can't have been Pro Tools free for 15 years. Pro Tools free didn't EXIST 15 years ago! In fact Pro Tools v1 (shudder) wasn't released till '92 or so. edit: Fibes is saying he has been Pro Tools "free"... not using Pro Tools (the free or any other version)!

And then there were four tracks...

[djui5]

"Pro-Tools editing software"?

They sell that $hit? I thought it came with the interfaces. And what about the rest of the program?

[Larrchild]

When ProTools first hit the market, they would send my studio a spam-letter about every week telling me to buy one. I consistently tossed them in the trash for the first 6 or so years.

Being old school, I wanted faders and tactile response from a control surface. When the HUI came out, I changed my attitude about them and warmed up. All the clients wanted it too, so the decision was market-driven for us at the time.

It's arrival in the late 90's to our studio had a mixed effect. We had more clients, for awhile... But much of the other gear in the place became unused or used less. Including the vocal booth, because of that G**damn Antares Autotune plugin!

Avid, at the time was on a huge roll and was the "kleenex" of non-linear editing and had a lot of available cash. They purchased Digidesign and fortified it's market-position even further.

But nothing lasts.

As was pointed out here, these days, CPU power does most of the heavy-lifting that proprietary dsp cards used to do. And that trend will continue.

Also, getting people to buy new hardware every 2-3 years is tough.

Yeah, I'd be worried if I were them. But I don't think they are down for the count. Next year will tell how many have migrated to the intel platform for mac. If that never happens, then they should Really worry, methinks.

[studiojimi]

my concerns TODAY, in this moment...which is all we ever really really have.... are winning the favor of the potential client who comes in for consultationl that has expectations and the idea that he want PT.

of course...the true bottom line is . . .

one sells themselves as well as their tool box.

[arconaut]

Yesterday I watched Logic running on a MacBook Pro. There were about 32 tracks, over a hundred plug-ins running and probably around 20 virtual instrument plugs going too. This was NATIVE. It was very impressive, and I think does not bode well for companies whose business strategy is to sell hardware.

Noah

[studiojimi]

how was the latency?

[Tidewater]

Latency had become a non-issue with me around the 2.4Ghz level, with the MOTU stuff.



M

[blueboy]

Some related info on Mac Pro performance and latency with Apogee's Symphony.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=84322

Quote:

What Symphony provides is Pro Tools HD performance in a native system for about half the price. For native software users, this is very exciting stuff. ........ The latency is 1.6ms at 96K. At 44.1 it's higher, but still compares to Pro Tools, which is also higher at 44.1. __________________ Max Gutnik Apogee Electronics

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=80689

Quote:

Apogee’s new Universal PCI-Express driver, in combination with the powerful Intel processors in the Mac Pro, lowers the latency of the Symphony PCI-Express card by over 50% into the 2ms range. This achievement is a significant increase in performance beyond other native solutions on the market and compares favorably to the latency on other hardware-based systems.

JL

[rphilbeck]

arconaut wrote on Sat, 30 September 2006 12:46

Yesterday I watched Logic running on a MacBook Pro. There were about 32 tracks, over a hundred plug-ins running and probably around 20 virtual instrument plugs going too. This was NATIVE. It was very impressive, and I think does not bode well for companies whose business strategy is to sell hardware. Noah

Doesn't bode well for the proliferation of quality music and performances either.

Build a bridge and get over it people.  There is nothing wrong with Digi except you thinking you're entitled to outfit your studio with their brand, and get 24 I/O with unlimited tracks for less than $500.

[studiojimi]

Larrchild wrote on Sat, 30 September 2006 03:17

Also, getting people to buy new hardware every 2-3 years is tough.

at this point i feel this statement is inaccurate

it's much more about needling the users for incremental software updates at this point.

at least for this moment, which is all we have and will ever have.

[Larrchild]

Yer probably right. But the problem they are facing at the moment is due to the introduction of the intel-mac. Does that upgrade require new hardware or just new code?

[danickstr]

do i really have to endure two pictures of studiojimi per post??? (eidt: i guess not)

avid need a scooby snack.

but it can go spit since it doesnt work with a bunch of plugins.  i wish someone would make a system that actually works.