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[bblackwood]

 http://www.forbes.com/2006/09/26/avid-technology-update-cx_r s_0926markets04.html?partner=yahootix

Quote:

Shares of Avid Technology  (nasdaq: AVID -  news  -  people ) fell roughly 14% in Tuesday afternoon trading, after the company, which makes editing products for digital media, said its audio business was struggling during the third quarter. The reason: a sales dip of its Pro Tools HD editing software. In early August, Avid said it would release a version of Pro Tools that is compatible with Apple's new Intel-based Mac Pro. Avid expected a drop off in its older version of Pro Tools, which is based on Apple's G5 Macintosh computers. On Tuesday, however, the company said in a press release that this slackening has had a greater-than-expected effect due to "the significant improvement in the price/performance of the new Intel-based Mac platform." The Intel Mac Pro version of Pro Tools has been available since Sept. 18, but new orders have not sufficiently offset the sales declines of the older product. The company's audio division represented 33% of Avid's revenue in the second quarter. In response to the division's softness, the company said its non-GAAP earnings-per-share results for the third quarter will likely be at the lower end of the 35 cents to 49 cents the company guided in July. Avid shares fell $6.28 to $37.59 in Tuesday afternoon trading. "We believe earning's visibility could be an issue for a number of months," said Randall Scherago, an analyst for First Albany Capital in a Tuesday report. He reiterated a "neutral" rating on Avid shares. The company will announce its third-quarter results on Oct. 26 after the market closes.

[Barry Hufker]

While this is "news," it isn't news.  At Webster University, we've been seeing Avid's problems coming for a couple of years now.  Final Cut Pro is kicking ass.  Avid, which once dominated that field, is on the ropes.

Barry

[rnicklaus]

The question is this.  Is Avid "hurting" or not making their numbers this 1/4?

[Fibes]

rnicklaus wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 00:57

The question is this.  Is Avid "hurting" or not making their numbers this 1/4?

Now that Apple has gone to a less closed system I wonder if big brother will.

Nah.

Hello my name is Fibes and I have been Pro Tools free for 15 years.

[rnicklaus]

What does it matter if someone is protools free or a protools user?

Like there is a badge of honor for not using protools or for using it.

You either make good sounds or not.

Silly.  IMHO

[studiojimi]

rnicklaus wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 09:01

What does it matter if someone is protools free or a protools user? Like there is a badge of honor for not using protools or for using it. You either make good sounds or not. Silly.  IMHO

exactly.....i'll say this once again...as i have many times

and i'm coming from a place of 20 years of AE/studio experience daily and 3000 songs produced and at about a grand per song...you can do the math. ....of which maybe 1000 of them on pro tools. .... and  randy nicholas is a mentor and friend even a client so when he speaks i perk up ....

....when people call me they almost always ask if i have pro tools.  

they never ask if i have sonic solutions, logic, performer, acid...none of that....

if i want the job...i have to have the tools...but that's just me...carry on gents.
i know it sound like bragging it isn't..just testimony.
sj
working today.  one day at a time.

[bblackwood]

hey, this wasn't meant to be a PT bash thread, I 'm just surprised to see sales lower than expected. Digi seems pretty business savvy...

[Fibes]

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 13:32

hey, this wasn't meant to be a PT bash thread, I 'm just surprised to see sales lower than expected. Digi seems pretty business savvy...

And although my quip is true, it was intended in jest, so yes, silly.

I've never been much of a bandwagoneer and my format does all that I require and then some.

We make good sounds and our clients usually ask if we have Pro-Tools (generically mostly, like Coke for cola) but they are calling for US, not the software.

It'll pick up for 'em but in the long haul I see a sea change in proprietary hardware based processing power.

[Annie]

[quote title=Fibes wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 14:03]

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 13:32

We make good sounds and our clients usually ask if we have Pro-Tools (generically mostly, like Coke for cola) but they are calling for US, not the software.

karmic debt is expensive.

[compasspnt]

Just a mention of PT is often enough to call out the bashers around here.

JH is 100% on the money though.

We could not have anything else here, with clients coming and going all the time.  NONE of them has ever asked for any other "brand" of recording software (well, except for that one group that used Logic on our PT hardware).

That's in 15 years of having PT around the place.

I'm sure other systems can work just as well for recording good sounds, but Kleenex is Kleenex.

Digidesign always had a bit of trouble financially, when they were on their own.  Seems no different now.  How many can they sell?

So they have to keep "upgrading" all the time, trying to sell all over again to their old clients.

That eventually runs low.

Also, there is less and less need for the external DSP processing (read:  Digi hardware) to run things.  Before too long, CPU power alone will handle (almost) anyone's session.

Apple knows that.

I bet Digi does as well.

[Tidewater]

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 13:32

hey, this wasn't meant to be a PT bash thread...

You have a baby, then that baby makes it's own way.

PT SUCKS!

You can't tell this thread how to be! You aren't it's real father!

(granted, you are aministoneous... so you could whack me like a bug.. but..)


M
(you won't)

[rnicklaus]

If Digi/Avid is looking to keep selling high end system upgrades over and over, of course they are hosed.

Not unlike once there were enough 2" machines that worked to cover the marketplace.

Or when DAWs killed the DASH format.

You never know what will be next as "the" system the majority gravitates too.

DAWs being affordable, is sure better and cheaper for many small studios than ADATs and DA88's.

I just don't believe, and I may be wrong, that if a change comes it will be Digi goes away and then DP, Logic or Nuendo will become "the" platform.

It may be something we haven't seen or used yet.

There are enough HD3 systems out there to last for many years if Digi stopped tomorrow.  It's not like a small spread like Paris, for instance.

Be open, not closed to your own system was my point.

[Jerry Tubb]

Quote:

The reason: a sales dip of its Pro Tools HD editing software.

Well I've certainly been doing my part to keep Digi afloat for the last 20 years.

Started with Sound Designer ONE back in '86 for sample editing, many, many versions of hardware and software upgrades later, now running PT HD 7.1, and a 002.

Every corporation is gonna have a soft quarter now and then, part of the healthy ebb and flow of doing bizness.

Good eye though Brad, thanks for the report.

JT

[Tomas Danko]

Fibes wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 14:47

Hello my name is Fibes and I have been Pro Tools free for 15 years.

I do not believe you. You can't have been Pro Tools free for 15 years. Pro Tools free didn't EXIST 15 years ago!

[Tomas Danko]

compasspnt wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 20:23

Also, there is less and less need for the external DSP processing (read:  Digi hardware) to run things.  Before too long, CPU power alone will handle (almost) anyone's session.

There is something to be said concerning software piracy.

A good dongle will allow the best guys to give you the best sounding algorithms. A bad dongle will allow every single teenager to become a "producah" and EQ his "phat b3atz" with an inferior EQ plugin.

Enter UAD-1 and TC Powercore. Those are some mighty fine dongles/software protection devices. It seems PT has been doing something similar to numerous developers throughout the years.

I do not hesitate to commit to using external DSP processing if it means I can have the best reverberation algorithms in the world while mixing ITB. The additional computing power is a welcome bonus.

The last few years I've started adding the element of "good guys, nice company" into the equation whenever making a purchase. Hence, I would not buy a Waves bundle. I would not buy Oram outboard, and I would probably not have bought Bomb Factory software yesteryar. I wouldn't hesitate buying a David Bock microphone or a TAB Funkenwerk preamp, and buying something from Mercenary would be a feel good experience.

Hence, if such guys choose external DSP processing as part of their piracy protection I do not think twice about it. (Fletcher excluded, we all know his take on Digidesign DSP)

[minister]

i don't know whatall makes these things go up and down, but i'd sure bet it has more to do with the AVID video editing system losing market share to Final Cut Pro, rather than anything to do with Pro Tools.  it is INSANE how many legal and illegal copies of FInal Cut are out there.  only the high end places have AVID's here.  and they MUST have at least one FCP edit bay.  they lose business to the producer or freelance editor who can install FCP on their mac and charge less $$....

look at the films that are being touted as 'Edited in FCP'.  i just gave a seminar on sound for a film that i did using Apple products...the regional 'Pro Film & Video' sales rep from Apple was there and he was very aggressive about talking about their produts and pushing Soundtrack Pro (ha, ha!) and Final Cut....he also talked about how big FCP is becoming and they are puting a lot of marketing $$ into letting people know you can get 'A Big Hollywood Look' with off-the-shelf products from Apple.

i also know from talking to Product Managers at DIGI (who speak rather candidly to me) that they sure as shit watch their competition very closely. they have operating copies of Nuendo, Logic, Cubase, Pyramix, SAW studio etc... in house.  not saying that they can't improve  jus' saying i think it is a mistake to think this has that much to do with pro tools.

as to bashers, there sure as shit a bunch of them...  i don't use Nuendo, but i don't BASH people for using it or the product itself.  it has some cools features.  in fact, you can go onto the Nuendo Forum and see people saying that people are lazy and stupid for using Pro Tools....  even though they are, i am sure, the exception, they are very vocal.  as a (small) studio owner, i look at everything that is available to me and make a decision based on what i can aford and i think i will need.  all the DAW's have something to offer.

[Fibes]

I see DSD in the future, or something.

[Jerry Tubb]

Tomas Danko wrote on Fri, 29 September 2006 05:49

Fibes wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 14:47 Hello my name is Fibes and I have been Pro Tools free for 15 years. I do not believe you. You can't have been Pro Tools free for 15 years. Pro Tools free didn't EXIST 15 years ago!

In fact Pro Tools v1 (shudder) wasn't released till '92 or so.

edit: Fibes is saying he has been Pro Tools "free"... not using Pro Tools (the free or any other version)!

[Fibes]

Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 29 September 2006 11:18

Tomas Danko wrote on Fri, 29 September 2006 05:49 Fibes wrote on Thu, 28 September 2006 14:47 Hello my name is Fibes and I have been Pro Tools free for 15 years. I do not believe you. You can't have been Pro Tools free for 15 years. Pro Tools free didn't EXIST 15 years ago! In fact Pro Tools v1 (shudder) wasn't released till '92 or so. edit: Fibes is saying he has been Pro Tools "free"... not using Pro Tools (the free or any other version)!

And then there were four tracks...

[djui5]

"Pro-Tools editing software"?

They sell that $hit? I thought it came with the interfaces. And what about the rest of the program?

[Larrchild]

When ProTools first hit the market, they would send my studio a spam-letter about every week telling me to buy one. I consistently tossed them in the trash for the first 6 or so years.

Being old school, I wanted faders and tactile response from a control surface. When the HUI came out, I changed my attitude about them and warmed up. All the clients wanted it too, so the decision was market-driven for us at the time.

It's arrival in the late 90's to our studio had a mixed effect. We had more clients, for awhile... But much of the other gear in the place became unused or used less. Including the vocal booth, because of that G**damn Antares Autotune plugin!

Avid, at the time was on a huge roll and was the "kleenex" of non-linear editing and had a lot of available cash. They purchased Digidesign and fortified it's market-position even further.

But nothing lasts.

As was pointed out here, these days, CPU power does most of the heavy-lifting that proprietary dsp cards used to do. And that trend will continue.

Also, getting people to buy new hardware every 2-3 years is tough.

Yeah, I'd be worried if I were them. But I don't think they are down for the count. Next year will tell how many have migrated to the intel platform for mac. If that never happens, then they should Really worry, methinks.

[studiojimi]

my concerns TODAY, in this moment...which is all we ever really really have.... are winning the favor of the potential client who comes in for consultationl that has expectations and the idea that he want PT.

of course...the true bottom line is . . .

one sells themselves as well as their tool box.

[arconaut]

Yesterday I watched Logic running on a MacBook Pro. There were about 32 tracks, over a hundred plug-ins running and probably around 20 virtual instrument plugs going too. This was NATIVE. It was very impressive, and I think does not bode well for companies whose business strategy is to sell hardware.

Noah

[studiojimi]

how was the latency?

[Tidewater]

Latency had become a non-issue with me around the 2.4Ghz level, with the MOTU stuff.



M

[blueboy]

Some related info on Mac Pro performance and latency with Apogee's Symphony.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=84322

Quote:

What Symphony provides is Pro Tools HD performance in a native system for about half the price. For native software users, this is very exciting stuff. ........ The latency is 1.6ms at 96K. At 44.1 it's higher, but still compares to Pro Tools, which is also higher at 44.1. __________________ Max Gutnik Apogee Electronics

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=80689

Quote:

Apogee’s new Universal PCI-Express driver, in combination with the powerful Intel processors in the Mac Pro, lowers the latency of the Symphony PCI-Express card by over 50% into the 2ms range. This achievement is a significant increase in performance beyond other native solutions on the market and compares favorably to the latency on other hardware-based systems.

JL

[rphilbeck]

arconaut wrote on Sat, 30 September 2006 12:46

Yesterday I watched Logic running on a MacBook Pro. There were about 32 tracks, over a hundred plug-ins running and probably around 20 virtual instrument plugs going too. This was NATIVE. It was very impressive, and I think does not bode well for companies whose business strategy is to sell hardware. Noah

Doesn't bode well for the proliferation of quality music and performances either.

Build a bridge and get over it people.  There is nothing wrong with Digi except you thinking you're entitled to outfit your studio with their brand, and get 24 I/O with unlimited tracks for less than $500.

[studiojimi]

Larrchild wrote on Sat, 30 September 2006 03:17

Also, getting people to buy new hardware every 2-3 years is tough.

at this point i feel this statement is inaccurate

it's much more about needling the users for incremental software updates at this point.

at least for this moment, which is all we have and will ever have.

[Larrchild]

Yer probably right. But the problem they are facing at the moment is due to the introduction of the intel-mac. Does that upgrade require new hardware or just new code?

[danickstr]

do i really have to endure two pictures of studiojimi per post??? (eidt: i guess not)

avid need a scooby snack.

but it can go spit since it doesnt work with a bunch of plugins.  i wish someone would make a system that actually works.

[studiojimi]

Larrchild wrote on Sun, 01 October 2006 14:40

Yer probably right. But the problem they are facing at the moment is due to the introduction of the intel-mac. Does that upgrade require new hardware or just new code?

hardly worthy of naming a minor challenge a problem for mighty DIGI

they can't be hurting that bad...they picked up the tab at the tech breakfast i attended and there were easily  60- to 70 guys there.

check out the booths at namm and AES....are they hurting?

then againg . . .there is the looming midi issue

they discussed was centered around think tanking midi

i think they are still busting heads to get their midi up to snuff.

i still program all of my midi into my linn 9000 then dump it to pt
so clients can have a hard copy master.

danickstr ...can you post a pic of yourself so we can see what the role model for "The Look" is?

we all want to see your studio tan.

[Tomas Danko]

Man, I was joking about Fibes thinking he was a piece of freeware.

My bad.

Note to self: Must use smileys.

[Fibes]

Tomas Danko wrote on Mon, 02 October 2006 14:02

Man, I was joking about Fibes thinking he was a piece of freeware. My bad. Note to self: Must use smileys.

I had a dream, "it wasn't good, so I had another for dessert."

[el duderino]

Larrchild wrote on Sun, 01 October 2006 17:40

Yer probably right. But the problem they are facing at the moment is due to the introduction of the intel-mac. Does that upgrade require new hardware or just new code?

perhaps my reasoning is wrong but...

I think it has to do with the fact that a 3ghz mac pro (quad?) can do alot of what a smaller HD system can do processing wise.

as for latency and ADC i'm curious myself. lots of programs have some type of ADC but does it allow for using hardware on inserts? i dont think so, but could be wrong. if i am, please tell me.

as far as processing, if a mac pro quad can run the same amount of plugs as an HD2 (for example) then thats quite alot. If someone is thinking about buying a HD system and they'll need a new computer then why get an HD3 when an HD1 on mac pro Quad can do the same thing? unless of coarse you need a lot of I/O. but based on the amount of people building studios with large tracking rooms id guess its not the case.

plus, didn't HD come out like 5 years ago? When new macs had 1 processor at around 1ghz?

[minister]

Assman wrote on Mon, 02 October 2006 15:51

as for latency and ADC i'm curious myself. lots of programs have some type of ADC but does it allow for using hardware on inserts? i dont think so, but could be wrong. if i am, please tell me.

happy to tell you you are wrong.

[Fibes]

minister wrote on Sat, 07 October 2006 14:44

Assman wrote on Mon, 02 October 2006 15:51 as for latency and ADC i'm curious myself. lots of programs have some type of ADC but does it allow for using hardware on inserts? i dont think so, but could be wrong. if i am, please tell me. happy to tell you you are wrong.

Options are: PT HD, Nuendo and maybe the new Cubase or: A console.

[danickstr]

jimi i think you are a damn good looking man, i was just thinking that 2 of you per post is more than us non-supers can handle...

anyone want to make a linux audio system that works?  I wish i had an infinite bunch of monkeys coders in a room full of workstations so i could have them write an audio program that worked.

and if you want to see me I am pictured in a post about a hatawa or something like that being sent out on me by diebremspur.

[studiojimi]

danickstr wrote on Mon, 09 October 2006 20:01

jimi i think you are a damn good looking man, i was just thinking that 2 of you per post is more than us non-supers can handle...

just happy to be working . . . . (everyday)

[compasspnt]

danickstr wrote on Mon, 09 October 2006 23:01

anyone want to make a linux audio system that works?  I wish i had an infinite bunch of monkeys coders in a room full of workstations so i could have them write an audio program that worked.

Have you tried Ardour?  Or Ardour within Fervent's Studio To Go?

I have not, but am wondering how a monster new desktop running Linux with this software fed by say, RME's would work?

[blueboy]

danickstr wrote on Mon, 09 October 2006 20:01

and if you want to see me I am pictured in a post about a hatawa or something like that being sent out on me by diebremspur.

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/129162/11771/#m sg_129113

JL