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Author Topic: IMP6 discussion  (Read 9542 times)

dikledoux

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2006, 09:13:03 pm »

By the way, j. hallster - this is a VERY neat event.  Tons of interaction, lotta eye openers.  I like the short time window as well.  Means you get in, do your thing, discuss, and you're out.  The payback/hour is great!

CaPE is great as a networking/planning exercise, but this is a whole 'nother animal.  Thanks for putting it on.  And thanks Scott for the tracks - people talkin' bout the sonic issues HAH!  I WISH people would bring me tracks like this <g>.

dik
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rankus

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Re: IMP666 discussion
« Reply #76 on: September 02, 2006, 01:14:34 pm »

rankus wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 10:53

j.hall wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 14:20

rankus......lots of comments on murky low mids......you got a low mid bump in your acoustics?




I will take the MP3's to the studio and have a listen there and report back. Thanks for the heads up.... This indeed may be on my end.



OK.  I listened to all the mixes again at the studio with better acoustics.

I still hear some issues in low end on several of the mixes, but I feel that it is more of a bass gtr to kik drum thing rather than low mids... in some cases they are fighting for space a lot...

So, long story short: I recant my comments on low mids muddiness, and say that more attention to the bass gtr and kik is in order on some of the mixes.

J Hall, your mix is damned good on my system with the sub pumping.  The comp still pumps, but you knew that.  

I am amazed by the level of quality here guys... at least 50% of the mixes were damned good, and highly listenable.

Scott:  I like this song even more after listening again! The singer has a killer voice.
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j.hall

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Re: IMP666 discussion
« Reply #77 on: September 03, 2006, 03:36:50 pm »

rankus wrote on Sat, 02 September 2006 12:14



OK.  I listened to all the mixes again at the studio with better acoustics.



thanks for taking the extra time to do that.

Quote:


J Hall, your mix is damned good on my system with the sub pumping.  The comp still pumps, but you knew that.  




yeah, and the kick sample i went with was the wrong choice, i just didn't have time to really dig into this tune........but that's no disclaimer, i'd recall the mix for the buss compression and be happy to have my name on it.
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garret

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2006, 11:12:40 pm »

K, back when we were planning IMP6, I posted some high and mighty suggestion that everyone who enters try to post some comments... and then I got swamped.  ack.

But I'm unswamped now, and had some time to listen to the mixes tonight...   I made it through 2/3 of them before my ears wore out... i'll try to get to the rest tomorrow.

-Garret

-------------------------------
cerberus - not too shabby.. the reamping has greatly changed the tone of the guitars (very pinched/high mids/buzzy/thrashy now).. reminds me of the pixies somehow, can't decide if I like it or hate it.  Vocal timing problems do bother me.... and the mix doesn't sound completely glued together (I hear very discrete tracks of sound, rather than a band!)

dikledoux - great job... one of my favs.    Nicely balanced, with terrific energy.  Vocal timing problems are hidden, and the track just grooves...  

rankus – great drum mix. yay giant snare.   I like the snare treatment and level in this... similar to what I did (thought I think I went too far).  Nicely balanced and powerful...  one of my favorites.

Calvin – good solid mix... somehow the vocal timing problems just sound stylish in your mix, where they sound off in other mixes... i like the delay on the vocal.... nicely balanced and wound like a tight spring.

Fornever-01.mp3 (unknown person) -  more bass than many of the other mixes, but it works... i like the tone you've achieved there.. I gotta see if you posted notes on how you treated the bass.  Vox sounds good throughout.. might be mixed a bit high at times, but you've brought out the best character in the vox for sure.    One of my favs.

J – rawk music!   Yah, the kick is wrong, especially in the quieter bits... but otherwise this mix is very very good.     Nicely balanced, powerful, and loaded with style...

ator - in many ways this is a fantastic mix....  one of my favorites, with great energy and balance.   Question though: did you de-ess the vocals?   I hear a pronounced lisp now.  Maybe it's something in my monitoring system... hmmm.  Whatever it is, it's bad news.

Nickt – out of balance somehow (scooped?)... hats seem way high, vocal doesn't sit right in the mix and the timing probs bug me.  Lacks body and power...

chrisJ – sounds very wide and unglued (I hear lots of discrete tracks but they don't combine to make something unified).  Snare treatment makes it sound really cheap... what reverb is that?  Vocal dynamics often jump out of the mix... a touch undercompressed perhaps?


Louman – freq balance is off somehow, but I can't tell you exactly what it is... biggest prob for me is when the track strangely gets quieter when you'd think it should get louder (3:02 or so).   Seriously disorienting, that. Wink  had to listen a few more times to make sure it wasn't my ears suddenly cloggin up.

Max – some funny stuff going on in this for my ears... levels jumping around, delays on the drums throwing off the groove... freq balance is very good though, and the mix is stylish...  

Mfassett – vox is a too low, and the kick is a bit much.... otherwise this is a very good mix.   Freq balance is pushed a bit toward the bottom end, but everything sounds good and works together to make something unified and rockin.

Garret – damn that snare reverb is huge.   Huuuuge.   Toooo huuuge.  Needs more bass... (too midsy).  What did you do, mix this in a couple hours?  (yes!)

ForneverMix – 8-26.mp3  (person unknown) – mastered already?  Sometimes hard to eval a mix when it's been mashed.  Drums sound off to my ears...
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ATOR

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2006, 05:12:37 am »

garretg wrote on Thu, 07 September 2006 05:12

ator - in many ways this is a fantastic mix....  one of my favorites, with great energy and balance.   Question though: did you de-ess the vocals?   I hear a pronounced lisp now.  Maybe it's something in my monitoring system... hmmm.  Whatever it is, it's bad news.


Thanx Garret.

About the lisp, there's nothing wrong with your monitoring it's a lisp alright Crying or Very Sad

I added quiet a lot of highs to the lead vox and the sibilance went trough the roof so I tried a couple of de-essers and ended up with manually cutting loose the esses and turning them down on the lead and spitfish on the backing vocals.

The esses were turned down too much so I ended up in the lisp zone, but I still think they stand out too much. For this lead to get the esses right I'd need some sort of drumagog ess-replacer because it's not just the level but also the sound of the sibilance that needs to be changed. It's as if the sibilance made the microphone membrane resonate.
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #80 on: September 07, 2006, 06:11:29 am »

I'm back.

I literally haven't listened to single piece of music over the past ten days, save the sounds of nature and the cruel and unusual cacophony of snoring Slovenian hikers. I'd recommend it as a way of clearing the head and ears.

Thanks to all who commented on my mix- I think I did something right there, although it does sound a bit briggggghhhht on a return listen.

I'll try as best I can to remember the outlines of what I did.

I thought the track was perfect for a big, phat rock treatment in the vein of Andy Wallace or whichever 3-named superstar mix engineer you could care to name.

Basic points:

Drums- Good playing, average but useable recording. Ohs out of phase with each other. Possibly then out of phase with snare mic- always check this relationship as matter of course. Snare and kick a little pedestrian- needed to slam a little more. I started off with a monster sample treatment, but realised that it sounded worse than the recorded drums themselves. I went back to the originals, got them sounding as good as possible by kosher means, then applied a light blend of samples in background just to let them cut through the guitars.

Drum verb mostly from Waves IR-1, using big, bombastic patch with the convolution time taken down to 0.3 secs for an instant gated ambience. Drum subgroup compressed with Sonalksis compressor.

Guits- Well recorded, but on the harsh side. Fair whack of Eq using URS Neve graphic, then just a matter of panning and balancing appropriately. In some sections I pitchshifted 2 tracks down an octave, eq'd heavily then blended in the background just to give the sound a little more girth.

Bass- a bit farty- I just used a stack of EQ from Waves Q to scoop out everything between 160 to 400, then compressed twice- once to take down the popping peaks and once to even out overall level. Bass then distorted twice, using amplitube and Quadrafuzz.

Vox- well recorded. I'll basically fix anything that pisses me off when I'm mixing, so I just shifted bits of BVs by hand to where I thought they sounded right and blended together. Essentially a load of compression and EQ on the vocals to get them nicely upfront in the mix. In retrospect, probably too much high eq on the voice, but at the time it was the only way I could get them to cut. A real mix engineer with three names would know what to do in that situation. Effects extended as far as a bit of hall reverb and a nice lowpassed delay.

Aside from that, the mix was really a whole stack of automation to keep some dynamic shift between the sections and ensure each part was intelligible.  

Sonalksis compressor sat on the master bus, as did a Waves LinBroadband giving a bit of high boost (probably overcooked in retrospect).
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #81 on: September 07, 2006, 06:37:49 am »

I tried to listen to as many of the mixes as I could- all the Yousendit links are now gone so I had to miss those- apologies to anyone else I may have inadvertently missed.

In no special order:

Dickledoux- Best blend of everything, I thought. Good Power. Drums a little boxy- overall slightly muffled? The vox treatment works, as does the edit(s?).

Blueboy- another good one, a bit of a hole in the low mids maybe? Bass still a bit farty. Like the vox.

Nick T- Too scooped- I think it looses meat in the guitars. Good vox FX. Maybe a little bright overall. Unshifted Bvs are a bit distracting.

Rankus- A bit muffled in the high mids. Drums maybe too roomy. A good overall balance between the elements, and nice acoustic bits. Loses Brownie points for not shifting the BVs, but otherwise good.

Garrett- A bit thin on the bottom, and muffled in the upper mids. Good wall of sound in the choruses. Interesting stoner ending!

Louman- Sounds thin and papery- check your monitoring? Big shifts in the level of the guitars between verse and chorus. Unshifted BVs are distracting to me.

Max- Not my cup of tea at all... sorry.

JHall- Big pumping, as has been discussed at length.... Otherwise, great guitars, probably the best on show here, good vox treatment, I like the overall aggression. Kick comes at the expense of the snare a little.

Chris J- Sounds like wierd, pointed comb filtering going on in the guitars. Vox seem too dry and close for my taste. Where have the cymbals gone?

Tom C- Decent mix. Snare a bit pointy and lacking in mojo. A good blend of vox, and good overall balance.

A big thanks to Tom for hosting my file, I really appreciate it  Smile

Thanks to Scott for putting the track out there too- I enjoy mixing this kind of music- I thought the song was rather good, as was the tracking.

Of course, a big thanks to J for organising the whole shebang.

Cheers,

Adam
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ATOR

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #82 on: September 07, 2006, 10:19:16 am »

Adam Miller wrote on Thu, 07 September 2006 12:11

Guits- Well recorded, but on the harsh side. Fair whack of Eq using URS Neve graphic, then just a matter of panning and balancing appropriately. In some sections I pitchshifted 2 tracks down an octave, eq'd heavily then blended in the background just to give the sound a little more girth.



Hey Adam, I really like your guitars especially the separation. It almost sounds as if it was recorded using different amp/guitars. Did you eq each guitar to have it's own freq space? Could you elaborate some more on what you did. I tried copying your guitar sound but couldn't get there.


Maybe I oughta get myself some snoring Slovenian hikers to clear my ears too  Very Happy
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Adam Miller

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #83 on: September 07, 2006, 03:27:03 pm »

Hi Pieter- thanks for the kind words.

Guitars were really just done with EQ- generally as a subgroup, although I did tweak the sound on a track-by-track basis across the different sections of the song though. I'm not sure it's really noticeable unless you were purposefully looking out for it, though.

The basic sound is really the URS eq- I gave the guitars a little nudge at 110Hz, pulled a fair bit out at 700 and 1.6kHz and then a little bump up at 7K just to pull the leading edge out. I followed the URS with a waves q, Hipassing at 80Hz-ish and lowpassing around 8kHz. I also did another midrange cut around 1.2k with a fairly tight Q.

With distorted guitars, it's really a matter of carving out enough space to be able to push them nice and high in the mix without treading all over everything else. It's very definitely the kind of thing to do whilst listening to the whole track, rather than just the guitars in isolation (something I still do way too much of). The rest is just balancing up the individual tracks- I like it nice and wide, so at least L and R tracks hard panned, and preferably another track down the middle so the whole thing doesn't competely collapse in mono. And really, that's about it, I think.
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garret

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #84 on: September 08, 2006, 12:59:14 am »

garretg wrote on Wed, 06 September 2006 23:12


But I'm unswamped now, and had some time to listen to the mixes tonight...   I made it through 2/3 of them before my ears wore out... i'll try to get to the rest tomorrow.



Scratch that plan!  Very Happy

My wife had a baby this morning at 7 am... so I'm, er, busy...

Big un, 9 lbs even, 20 1/2 inches, firstname Henry...  almost as big as his older brother (now 3 years old) was....

Not sure if/when I'll be able to get back to this...  

-G
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maxim

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2006, 01:14:57 am »

congratulations!!!
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Tom C

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2006, 04:53:26 am »

garretg wrote on Fri, 08 September 2006 06:59


Scratch that plan!  Very Happy

My wife had a baby this morning at 7 am... so I'm, er, busy...

Big un, 9 lbs even, 20 1/2 inches, firstname Henry...  almost as big as his older brother (now 3 years old) was....

Not sure if/when I'll be able to get back to this...  

-G



Congrats!
You'll have time to listen to the mixes during the sleepless
nights during the next weeks  Very Happy
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Tom

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #87 on: September 08, 2006, 06:46:34 am »

Adam Miller wrote on Thu, 07 September 2006 21:27

Hi Pieter- thanks for the kind words.

Guitars were really just done with EQ- generally as a subgroup, although I did tweak the sound on a track-by-track basis across the different sections of the song though. I'm not sure it's really noticeable unless you were purposefully looking out for it, though.

The basic sound is really the URS eq- I gave the guitars a little nudge at 110Hz, pulled a fair bit out at 700 and 1.6kHz and then a little bump up at 7K just to pull the leading edge out. I followed the URS with a waves q, Hipassing at 80Hz-ish and lowpassing around 8kHz. I also did another midrange cut around 1.2k with a fairly tight Q.

With distorted guitars, it's really a matter of carving out enough space to be able to push them nice and high in the mix without treading all over everything else. It's very definitely the kind of thing to do whilst listening to the whole track, rather than just the guitars in isolation (something I still do way too much of). The rest is just balancing up the individual tracks- I like it nice and wide, so at least L and R tracks hard panned, and preferably another track down the middle so the whole thing doesn't competely collapse in mono. And really, that's about it, I think.


Thanks, it's not that different from what I did but I guess small  differences can make a big difference in a mix.

You are absolutely right about Eqing while listening to the whole mix. I used to make all single tracks sound good and ended up with a horrible mix. Now I've found that the 'ugly' (boxy, honky) frequencies that make a single track sound bad are often needed to make a mix.

The more I learn how to mix, the more I find out that getting things right is a matter of details. Half a dB here and there can make the difference between an ok and a great mix.

I'll see if I can get my mix up a notch.

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Pieter Vincenten - ATORmastering

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #88 on: September 08, 2006, 06:49:18 am »

garretg wrote on Fri, 08 September 2006 06:59

garretg wrote on Wed, 06 September 2006 23:12


But I'm unswamped now, and had some time to listen to the mixes tonight...   I made it through 2/3 of them before my ears wore out... i'll try to get to the rest tomorrow.



Scratch that plan!  Very Happy

My wife had a baby this morning at 7 am... so I'm, er, busy...

Big un, 9 lbs even, 20 1/2 inches, firstname Henry...  almost as big as his older brother (now 3 years old) was....

Not sure if/when I'll be able to get back to this...  

-G


Congratulations !!!
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Pieter Vincenten - ATORmastering

UnderTow

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Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #89 on: September 08, 2006, 09:37:34 am »

garretg wrote on Fri, 08 September 2006 05:59


My wife had a baby this morning at 7 am... so I'm, er, busy...
-G


Congratulations!  Smile

Alistair
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