R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7   Go Down

Author Topic: IMP6 discussion  (Read 8511 times)

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2006, 07:54:57 am »

patrick wrote:

"...this very vital aspect of mixing"

thank you for your lovely words, patrick

while i, fully, recognise the technical shortcomings of my mixing, my goal for this (and, hopefully, any other) track, was to make it special, a presentation in itself

the "shifting scenes" effect was achieved, partly, by comping two bounces together, with different amounts of ambience and balances

when i listened back, i realised i liked the verses from one and the choruses from the other, so i frankensteined them together

the rest was spontaneous with a fair amount of fader rides

i wish i got more punch from the drums, like some of the guys did

i also wish i had the mastering engineer sprinkle some gold dust

all in all, it is a great honour and a huge learning experience to mix someone else's tracks

i know some of you do it all the time, but it's a novel experience for me
Logged

UnderTow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 393
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2006, 08:15:04 am »

Patrik T wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 12:22



Undertow: Maybe a bit heavy on the bottom, maybe not. The mix is great but how much of that comes from the GR and level-increase on the 2-buss? Isn't this one going too far into mastering-land?



Could well be. Smile Force of habit I guess ...

Quote:


Whassup with the 476 kbps by the way?



Is that what your player tells you? If so, it is very confused as 476 Kbps MP3s don't exist. Smile The MP3 is 192 Kbps.

Alistair
Logged

Patrik T

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 833
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2006, 08:22:50 am »

UnderTow wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 13:15


Is that what your player tells you? If so, it is very confused as 476 Kbps MP3s don't exist. Smile The MP3 is 192 Kbps.
Alistair


Leftclicking the file, checking the properties in windows on two different computers (one with xp home and the other with xp pro) says 476 kbps. As did WMA.
Logged

Patrik T

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 833
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2006, 08:33:57 am »

maxim wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 12:54

i also wish i had the mastering engineer sprinkle some gold dust



No, you wouldn't do that. There is nothing that mastering would do to make this "better". Your mix is so special that it should be left as is. It's a contra-mix. I just listened to the glorious 3:01 part again - it's natural. It is the songs big pivot point. There is no space for any drums there. That guitar you've come up with is like the only way and the only truth there. Amazing, amazing power. Listen to the other mixes at the same point to see what kind of nuclear bomb you've actually got going there. Nevermind the drums, it's all about placing power and you found it was located in the guitar.

Instead of thinking you are lacking something I would like to encourage you to polish up those philosophies without getting into polished-land if you get my drift. You have some serious sense for the mood-thing. Something that has been very lost in modern music. Something you will loose if you start to analyze things too much. I want a hi-res wav-file of your mix to put in a fire-proof locker, seriously.

You've certainly inspired me to return to 15 year old philosophies of my own.

Best Regards
Patrik
Logged

UnderTow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 393
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2006, 08:56:40 am »

Patrik T wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 13:22


Leftclicking the file, checking the properties in windows on two different computers (one with xp home and the other with xp pro) says 476 kbps. As did WMA.



On my PC it says 192 Kbps in the properties. Very weird. Do you have Windows Media Player set as the default player for MP3s? Maybe that is affecting things. (WMP isn't very good. It is amazing the number of people that have complained to me about the sound in their PC. I tell them to ditch WMP and use Winamp instead. All problems gone).

Alistair
Logged

ATOR

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 378
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2006, 09:30:07 am »

Some guys I left out in my first review:

Alistair
Nice! Massive and direct, I like that. Bassguitar could use some taming.
Leadvocal timing is off in some places, there’s a sound as if something hits a mic around 3:30.

Patrick T
Too much reverb, everything sounds distant
Balance of instruments is good, chorus vocals are burried
Logged
Pieter Vincenten - ATORmastering

UnderTow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 393
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2006, 09:39:37 am »

You are making me blush Jeff! Smile

cerberus wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 03:08



undertow how did you do your bass and kick drum? i really like how this hits me hard in the torso... wow.. the impact and clarity go together... how was that done?      beautiful natural top end too... if slighltly overwhelmed by the bottom, but there are no freq holes. snare is a bit compressed sounding...     nice vocal changeup at the climax.   then bringing on some grit...  what a suberb mix, amazing attention to all kinds of detail, it feels like music.



I think what worked for me was the lack of time. I didn't over think any decisions (something I am prone to). I kept it simple and just went with my first gut instinct every time. I'll give full details on what I did with the kick/bass:

Bass: Renaissance EQ: Hipass 50Hz, +3.1 dB 156Hz, -2.8 dB 248 Hz, +3.5 dB 1456 HZ, Lowpass 10Khz. Endorphin compressor: First time I used this plug so I selected the "Loud and Punchy" preset and increased the input trim untill it was giving me a sound I liked and that was it (arround 1-1.5 dB GR on the loudest peaks). Off to the stereo bus.

Kick: A look ahead expander/gate that opens about 4ms before the kick hits (Sonitus gate). Renaissance EQ: -2.7 dB 132 Hz, +2.6 dB 60 Hz (Q 3.34) -3.3 dB 250Hz, Lowpass 5150Hz (Q 1.41). Off to drums bus.

(All the Renaissance Qs I don't specify are at the default 0.8 ).

Drums bus: Voxengo Crunchessor in 2X oversampling mode: Mode Crisp 1, Style Punch, Drive 6.6 dB, Attack 14.4 ms, Release 50 ms. There is about 0.5-1 dB GR on the loudest peaks. Voxengo HarmoniEQ: +3.6 dB shelf starting at 4.69 Khz. (This EQ doesn't affect the dry signal. It adds harmonics which makes it sound nice and natural Smile ). Dominion: Attack level 10, length 52ms, Saturation 35, soft/hard 36, HF detail 2Khz level 50, Sustain level 9 duration 185 ms. Off to stereo bus.

These Digital Fish Phones plugins (Dominion and Endorphin) sound very good. Especially considering they are free!

Alistair
Logged

UnderTow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 393
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2006, 09:43:15 am »

ATOR wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 14:30

Some guys I left out in my first review:

Alistair
Nice! Massive and direct, I like that. Bassguitar could use some taming.
Leadvocal timing is off in some places,



Thanks! Smile

Quote:


there’s a sound as if something hits a mic around 3:30.



Oops! One of the kick hits got chewed by the expander/gate. I missed that. The threshold should have been a touch lower.

Alistair
Logged

Nizzle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 427
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2006, 09:58:52 am »

cerberus wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 03:08



nizzle reverb on vocals...  ugh.  sounds like vocal was phoned in from a shower stall... otherwise this is great.  the reverb is too nasty, things seem pitched weird. but i still enjoyed it anyway for sounding "together" like a record should.





Didn't use any reverb anywhere.....all delays. No pitch correction on anything....I kept everything on the Natch. Of course - that doesn't change the fact that you didn't dig it......67ms. slap in the verses and 300ms-ish delays in the bridge - I think it's all appropriate....That's the beauty in art...One man's Filet Mignon is anothers shit sandwhich.

I appreciate everyones comments.

-t
Logged

cerberus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2651
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #69 on: August 31, 2006, 01:14:40 pm »

Patrik T wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 07:22

Is the vox tuned?
yes, but crudely, due to time constraints. i was taken by the vocalist's vibrato, which i wanted to emphasize. i tuned the vox and then again backwards... combining these together can sometimes reduce the typical artifacts of tuning, but also slight differences cancel and re-enforce, exagerrating the warble, and especially with this vibrato.   the original vocals are in there too, but usually polarity inverted and often crosspanned, mixed in lightly.  this always makes a detuned chorus effect, but an animated one.

the technique can tend to create flange and phase effects which i often like on the vox (by mixing more of the untuned vocal with the tuned; i used it that way on imp5.)  but here, i tried to minimize this phasing effect.  for the most part, all the vocal fx come from this tuning method. i did not eq the vocals at all. towards the end, i bussed them all to add a slight amount of parallel comp to smooth things out and allow the lyrics to be more intelligible when i wanted to cut some gain. but that is a minor tweak; there is basically nothing on the vocals except for this tuning method.

the singer was pitchy up and down, not consistently flat or sharp, so the amount of warbling, the vibrato some other "micro-timbral" modulation characteristics could be modulated themselved on the three faders i ended up with for each vocal part.

one can really hear the effect on the second acoustic break part: it's way overdone there. but i'm glad none of the critiques so far said: "too synthetic".

UnderTow wrote on Thu, 31 August 2006 09:39

 think what worked for me was the lack of time. I didn't over think any decisions (something I am prone to). I kept it simple and just went with my first gut instinct every time. I'll give full details on what I did with the kick/bass:
so it was you, not your gear or some magic bullet secret... figures.   i will need to take this advice, not copy settings! my mix topography is different, so your specific kick and bass chain would not automatically fit with the rest of my mix.

you've hit on something  that patrik and a few others said: now with all these critiques about elements, the big picture can easily get obscured.  so i need to have nice tones, and nice dynamics and... clear vocals, louder drums that swing more, a sexy bass, etc.  but... the listener needs to feel the song, not my gear or even my own daft moves.

jeff dinces

rankus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5560
Re: IMP666 discussion
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2006, 01:53:52 pm »

j.hall wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 14:20

rankus......lots of comments on murky low mids......you got a low mid bump in your acoustics?




Hi J.  This is a possibility.... I am listening at home where I live on my boat, so the speakers (Tannoy PBM 6.5's) which are already a little dark, are stuck in corners.

But that said, I do compare/listen to commercial mixes on this system... I will take the MP3's to the studio and have a listen there and report back. Thanks for the heads up.... This indeed may be on my end.
Logged
Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

"There is no crisis in energy, the crisis is in imagination" ~ Buckminster Fuller

dikledoux

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 33
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2006, 01:29:07 pm »

cerberus wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 22:08

dikledoux interesting reverbs.. vocal levels seem a bit off in places... nice burble from the guitars.. drums seem like they're pulling my eardrums a bit.

That's the little know burble-puller plugin.  I use it on everything  Laughing   The reverb is just the toms run through the room section of a useful reverb and then compressed all to heck.  I figured there weren't any toms, so I'd make room mics where there were none.  There is some actual verb on the guits, but not much, and echo on the vocals rather than verb.

cerberus wrote on Wed, 30 August 2006 22:08


dikledoux [revised] i got the "police bullhorn thing".. very interesting but not loud or distorted enough.  the other (filtered?) vocals are nice.. sound stressy, but real smooth, has that phil collins exciter effect?    i like how the snare sounds low and lets the brass percussion ring clear like hell's  sleighbells.

I'm in agreement - shoulda trashed the vocs and if I'da had one I'd have used an actual bullhorn complete with fizzy-squealy sounds.  Glad you like the stressed vocs.  I took one of the double tracks and just trashed it completely and then blended to taste.

Over the past year or two I've come to realize that on a rock song there's a LOT of latitude in how much you trash up a vocal.  I've just destroyed stuff and in the mix it just works, but I should've been more obnoxious still with the bullhorn effect.

dik
Logged
"The gypsy woman placed a curse upon my head. Because I smelled it, she decreed I would forevermore be HE WHO DEALT IT!" - the Spleen

scott volthause

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 143
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2006, 02:08:45 pm »

Just be careful. You only get to use the bullhorn / radio voice ONCE in your career before it becomes trite. Choose wisely.
Logged

ShakesTheClown

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 161
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2006, 02:41:31 pm »

I liked the Bullhorn alot.  It really kinda made the mix for me.

Wish I'd thought of it...

I'm just glad that I could participate.  This is probably one of the most fun learning experiences umm....ever.  I'm pretty much into wuss music so the heavy rock thing was different.

I was unsure whether to get creative or play it safe.  I opted for safe.  Next time I will go balls out because...why not?
Logged

chrisj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 959
Re: IMP6 discussion
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2006, 07:29:46 pm »

dikledoux wrote on Fri, 01 September 2006 13:29

The reverb is just the toms run through the room section of a useful reverb and then compressed all to heck.  I figured there weren't any toms, so I'd make room mics where there were none.


I did that as well! I smashed the hell out of the toms track with compression (can't remember if there were multiple tom tracks- I copied them together) hoping that instead of verb I could get the heads ringing Smile

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7   Go Up