R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: How to approach a small live room  (Read 2754 times)

dirkb

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
How to approach a small live room
« on: August 27, 2006, 04:53:02 am »

Hi Fran,

You made an insightful listing about how you approach the acoustics of a control room in one of your posts.

How do you approach the acoustics of a small live room?
Let's say the room is about 18'x22' and 12' high and the main purposes are to record drums, vocals, and small ensembles (horns, strings) and the goal is to record close miced clean signals but also stereo miced ambient signals where the room needs to contribute to the recording.

I guess the difficulty is how to get the room live enough?

Thanks again for your involvement!

Greetings,
Dirk
Logged

franman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 580
Re: How to approach a small live room
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2006, 04:10:08 pm »

Dirk,

It's not that difficult to make a smaller room very live. What's difficult is to make it live and have it sound good!! I used to work at a small studio that had a stone and wood drum room smaller than you describe that sounded amazing. It have a vaulted wood paneled ceiling and one large natural stone wall and the rest was wood and glass. There was probably a 1 second RT in there and sounded rich and full. It was awesome on almost any source. I think one of the reasons this room was a success is that it was just slightly out of square and had the highly vaulted ceiling. Of course it was too intense to record in if you weren't looking for that type of sound, so the studio had a mid sized (deadish) live room as well.

We like the use of stone surfaces as they are random and diffuse for high frequencies. Definitely do something with the ceiling that will "allow" you to keep it live while staying away from parallel with the floor. The last thing you want in a small to mid sized live room is parallel "flutter sources". Other than that, get creative with it.. I think that today I would incorporate some 2D diffusors in there as well!! Go for it... you can always add some absorbers if it's messed up, right?? LOL Cool

Logged
Francis Manzella - President, FM Design Ltd.
                 - Managing Director, Griffin Audio
fmdesign.com
griffinaudiousa.com

dirkb

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: How to approach a small live room
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2006, 05:32:14 pm »

Thanks, makes a lot of sense.

Two more things (sorry, but this is just too good an opportunity!):
1. do you address the modal issues in LR's, i.e. do you try to add some serious broadband basstrapping by filling the corners with 703 for example?
2. on your site (great site btw!) I see you use quite some (what seem like) helmholz slatted resonators in smaller booths. Are they actually tuned helmholz traps or just some wood slats to keep the highs a little reflective and absorb bass broadband? And if they are tuned, what frequencies are you generally targeting, the low-mids 150-300HZ?

Thanks!

Greetings,
Diri
Logged

franman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 580
Re: How to approach a small live room
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2006, 06:52:26 pm »

Two answers:

Yes and Yes...

We do check room modes in live rooms, but often live room dimensions are dictated by "what is left" sceanrio.... Yes, we almost always try and trap at least a couple of corners and incorporate some overhead soffit trapping in all but the livest of rooms...

Yes, we use a lot of Helmholtz Slat treatments of numerous configurations... The tuning on these treatments is dictated by a number of variables including slot width, slat width, slot depth and depth of cavity behind slats... by varying the depth of the cavity we create a more broadband'ish trap... Yes usually most effective in the difficult 150-300 range.. Good call.
Logged
Francis Manzella - President, FM Design Ltd.
                 - Managing Director, Griffin Audio
fmdesign.com
griffinaudiousa.com

Ethan Winer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 571
Re: How to approach a small live room
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2006, 02:17:30 pm »

Fran,

> I used to work at a small studio that had a stone and wood drum room smaller than you describe that sounded amazing. <

Very cool. But how small is "small" in this context? I'm asked all the time if someone can get a good ambient live drum sound in a room the size of a bedroom. I assume the room you're describing is bigger than that though, yes?

BTW, I really appreciate your presence here!

--Ethan

dirkb

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
Re: How to approach a small live room
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2006, 03:47:20 pm »

Ethan Winer wrote on Mon, 28 August 2006 19:17

I assume the room you're describing is bigger than that though, yes?


Ofcourse I am in no way Fran  Very Happy , but if you mean the 18'x22', that is a perfectly acceptable room size to record some killer drums. It's not a "big-room" sound, but definitely a size where you can get something useful out of the room mics.

I'd say (being a drummer and engineer) already with only a 13x16' room, certainly with a sloped ceiling with the peak around 12' you can get some seriously decent ambient recordings (especially with some nice compression on the room mics Twisted Evil )

Greetings,
Dirk
Logged

franman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 580
Re: How to approach a small live room
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2006, 06:26:03 pm »

The room I was describing was probably 16 x 19 with 12' ceilings (top of the vault!)... not very big really. Maybe even smaller....
Logged
Francis Manzella - President, FM Design Ltd.
                 - Managing Director, Griffin Audio
fmdesign.com
griffinaudiousa.com

Ethan Winer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 571
Re: How to approach a small live room
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2006, 12:54:18 pm »

Fran,

> The room I was describing was probably 16 x 19 with 12' ceilings (top of the vault!)... not very big really. <

Tell that to all the guys trying to record drums in their bedroom. To them 16 by 19 by 12 is a palace!

--Ethan
Pages: [1]   Go Up