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Author Topic: "Big Picture" methodology  (Read 8836 times)

chrisj

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"Big Picture" methodology
« on: August 22, 2006, 02:17:51 AM »

So, I've been putting a bunch of work in trying to develop mixing skills. My experience has mostly been live sound mixing, which hasn't been a great preparation for studio mixing because instinctively I'm trying to separate everything out like crazy as if I was being clobbered with awful acoustics, muddy bass amps etc. Also, I always liked Steely Dan mixes, which separate out really well and tend not to teach me the following:

The Big Picture.

I'm having it brought to my attention that I fixate on little stuff, and lose the big picture. This actually has worked against me before, such as with my main gig which is mastering.

I'm participating in J Hall's 'IMP 6' mixathon and am finding that by trying to think 'big picture' I'm getting better results, but it still doesn't come natural. It's like I'm arriving at places that surprise me, that are good, but I don't really understand quite how I got there.

Has anyone else had to learn this more or less against their will?  Rolling Eyes

Bill_Urick

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2006, 06:29:01 AM »

chrisj wrote on Tue, 22 August 2006 07:17

Also, I always liked Steely Dan mixes, which separate out really well  



That could get you into quite a bit of trouble around here.
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

chrisj

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2006, 02:37:41 PM »

Bill Urick wrote on Tue, 22 August 2006 06:29

chrisj wrote on Tue, 22 August 2006 07:17

Also, I always liked Steely Dan mixes, which separate out really well  



That could get you into quite a bit of trouble around here.


Oh, I know  Laughing

I'm just explaining my problem. If the reaction is, "Ooooooh, that's too big of a problem, can't fix that!" I will be sad but will still try to learn what I need to.

What's jumping out at me is this: part of where I'm at is a getting-partly-there problem. I could impress the hell out of a lot of amateurs at this point because I can organize my thoughts and tracks and get an 'audibility mix' very easily ('slipperman' concepts all) but I'm getting trapped in that. I have professionals around these parts, and not just that but people who like me and think I'm a nice enough guy, making little faces and finding something very missing. I don't like friends getting uncomfortable and politely trying to tell me I suck, so I gotta sort out what I'm doing wrong, and this 'big picture' concept seems to always come up.

I'm enough of a pedantic nerd-boy to see why this might be happening, and I'm not oblivious- if some people are loving it and others hating it that's one thing, but if I'm not seeing ANYBODY going 'oh my god, that's amazing!' then I'm not there yet. If I'm doing the things I do right, somebody will like it Smile

wwittman

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2006, 07:34:02 PM »

well I'm not at all clear from your post WHAT exactly you think your problem is...

but as a big picture exercise...

how about this?

try pushing up all the faders to zero, and then without ANY processing.. try to push things around into a good balance.

the idea being to get a sense of how the musical elements interact rather than focusing on things as isolated "sounds"

do a mix like that.

then perhaps do the opposite... push things back to all zero in a line, and then "mix' ONLY by adding EQ to things, without altering any levels.

allow yourself to push the lead vocal up perhaps but nothing else.

of course depending on how things are recorded, this may be more or less successful as a real mix.,

but the idea is to THINK about what changing level versus changing EQ gets you... much better than thinking of each sound as an individual thing to be tweaked in isolation.


or,
why not allow yourself only a set time... say 1/2 hour?, to do a quick mix and print it.

listen to it tomorrow and see how you did; what you'd change, what you DID like about it, etc.


or,
put a really heavy, perhaps 20:1, compressor on the stereo buss and mix through it, like it's already pumping away on the radio.
Force yourself to mix that way just as if it IS on the radio.. make the drums punchy enough and the vocal cut through enough and so on, but naturally, it's on the radio, it cannot sound as good as a 'pristine' audiophile mix (thank god).
now take the compressor off and print the result.

how's THAT sound tomorrow?


it seems to me the idea is to shake up your habits if you feel you are getting too fixated.. and any of these might be a way to start that process.

hope this helps.




















ps Steely Dan blows



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William Wittman
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maxim

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2006, 08:15:04 PM »

great stuff!

for me, the "big picture" is how does it make you feel?

does it make your stomach contract or your toes curl

does it make you smile? ...make you cry?

if you can feel ANYTHING, that's a start

but, imo, a lot of it is balance

every cook has access to salt (ok, the pros know to use fleur de sel, but you get the idea..), but everyone will add a different amount

according to taste (the one thing most often seen missing)
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redfro

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2006, 08:22:59 PM »

To me it's about being able to hear the SONG, not the tracks. Stop mixing and listen to what will help the song.

And I like WW's ideas on breaking out of the box. Good stuff to try.

























ps Steely Dan sucks.
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Wes Pitzer
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compasspnt

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2006, 09:01:00 PM »

One of the most important things in recording, both as an Engineer and as a Producer, is to be able to see BOTH the little things in isolation, AND the Big Picture.

The better you can do both, the better everything will sound and be produced.

I know that many here may not like everything that Mutt Lange has produced, but no one can deny his success and the professional quality of his work.

Having worked with Mutt, and knowing him as a friend, has been  very inspirational to me in regard to "seeing both little and big."

He is the never-to-be-disputed Master of that concept.  Mutt will be the first one there every morning, and the last to leave at night.  You will rarely, if ever, see him out in the hallway, or going to the loo, or eating, or on the phone.  He will be working intensly all of the time, focusing intently on the most minute of sounds or parts.

But he NEVER loses sight of the whole, whilst most around him only see something hazily on the horizon.

This quality has served him quite well.

How else could you produce to such a high degree "Highway To Hell" AND "Man! I Feel Like A Woman!"

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Unwinder

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2006, 09:18:15 PM »

Highway to Hell... KICKS ASS!!!  

 Very Happy  

chrisj

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2006, 09:27:59 PM »

Actually I just hit on something that helped, but it's kind of funny Very Happy

If you can wave a conductor's baton (or any 14 inch stick) steadily to the music without thwacking it like a drum- there is groove. If you can't, there isn't. (groove is the main 'big picture' thing I'm struggling with- I actually spent a lot of effort painstakingly doubling a bumpy kickdrum part note for note on bass this last CaPE, and ended up worse off than if I'd just plunked away without paying attention)

I shall make a line of rock conductor's batons. With friction tape for handles Very Happy

wwittman

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2006, 10:24:17 PM »

Mutt has an almost unique ability to focus on something tiny, like the high hat for 2 days solid, without losing his big picture vision.

VERY few other humans can do that without getting lost up their own bums.

Mike Chapman was a bit like that.
But he also knew when to lighten it up and have some fun to keep everyone from getting crazy.
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William Wittman
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feedback loop

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2006, 10:44:03 PM »

Most non-professionals do not focus on the mix when judging a piece of music.  Therefore, if your friends are politely telling you that you suck I suspect your "big picture" problem is your music, not mix technique.  
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Unwinder

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2006, 12:54:11 AM »

Good point.  But...

His friends aren't telling him that he sucks...they're telling him that he's being anal...

they believe the music/mix could be better...

You already know the answer to your question Chris...so why are you asking?

Focus on the feeling of the song...


D.

cerberus

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 01:23:10 AM »

wwittman wrote on Tue, 22 August 2006 22:24

Mutt has an almost unique ability to focus on something tiny, like the high hat for 2 days solid, without losing his big picture vision.

VERY few other humans can do that without getting lost up their own bums.


i know why too...

because we professionals like to act like rome was built in a day. look elsewhere in these forums and discover that the mix the thread starter refers to was completed within a few hours.

and finally william says it: this sh_t is work, it doesn't come naturally, you have to sweat everything. mutt lange is an artist... but here we get told that we are not THE artist so butt out! and hurry up! what are you slow? 2 days just for hihats.. yes, i can do that too, if you all stop rushing me and make like the album should be finished in that time frame.

over in mastering, we'll spend 20 minutes on a track if one is lucky.. this way the forest CAN'T get lost in trees unless one has severe attention deficit disorder. but then again it might take that long for me to feel where the groove really is. an artist has vision, if you are an artist, how can the vision ever get lost?

answer?: you put business before art so you can make music your career, not because you are an artist first; otherwise you'd spend as much time as you need to get it right, like mutt.   how does he do it?  was he working by the clock on the wall once too?  when he was starting out, who budgeted him two days for hihats?  

answer?: i don't know for mutt, but i usually hide that extra work i do from everyone, to make me look "more pro"... so people think i'm "normal" and not a freak of a time waster who would spend two days on hihats.  but that's how i work...late into the night when nobody is watching...

jeff dinces

knightsy

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2006, 10:34:00 AM »

Chris, this is the main thing I picked up from Slipperman's thread: It's about the music first and foremost. What are the most important musical aspcts at any given moment? Emphasise them. Turn the other stuff down. It's certainly a good thing to overcome these issues in tracking, but sometimes we mix other peoples stuff.

Be brutal.

Chop that sucker down to kindling if you have to.
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Tim Gilles

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Re: "Big Picture" methodology
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2006, 11:35:16 AM »

knightsy wrote on Wed, 23 August 2006 10:34

Chris, this is the main thing I picked up from Slipperman's thread: It's about the music first and foremost. What are the most important musical aspcts at any given moment? Emphasise them. Turn the other stuff down. It's certainly a good thing to overcome these issues in tracking, but sometimes we mix other peoples stuff.

Be brutal.

Chop that sucker down to kindling if you have to.


Amen.

Thanks, Knightsy. You managed to condense one of those 90 minute long harangues into a concise and intelligible paragraph,

Brevity and lucidity have never been Slipperman's hallmarks.

Unfortunately.

Best regards,

Tim "Rumblefish" Gilles

PS. Steely Dan rules.

Mix NYHC and Emo for 2 decades and get back to me on what's fun to work on/listen to.

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