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Author Topic: nirvana "drain you" session.  (Read 9731 times)

Calvin

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2006, 04:30:24 pm »

No slime at all.  Producers do stuff like that all the time to pull performances out of the artist.  It's not like Kurt heard those various guitar parts for the first time after the release of the album.  He would have been aware of how the tune was taking shape during the process.  It's just that at that moment they needed to get some more performances from the artist and the artist needed to feel like the take was for real.  If he knew he was layering takes he might not have played it like he really meant it.  So, the producer digs into his bag of tricks and gets the artist into the proper mind set.  Just doing his job.
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jimmyjazz

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2006, 04:43:33 pm »

scott volthause wrote on Fri, 18 August 2006 15:25

i haven't heard anyone of the (surviving) members of nirvana complain of "dammit, that nevermind album just sold too many goddamn copies."


In fact, at another point on the DVD in question, Kris Novoselic makes the point that "Nevermind" is the best thing he's ever done in his life.
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iCombs

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2006, 05:27:35 pm »

pg666 wrote on Thu, 17 August 2006 10:58

sounds like an interesting DVD series, but back to the topic..

no one else thought mr. vig was just a tad slimy?



sorry I'm a little slow in getting back to this, but that's NOTHING compared to some of the goofy things I've done to guys.  I remember one time I had a singer who was WAY overthinking a vocal track he was working on, to the point where he just wasn't laying into it hard enough, and eventually started screwing things up because he was intellectualizing this vocal take that I knew he could just nail if he'd let go.  

I had noticed a little earlier in the day that the back of one of his socks had a hole in it.  So I says to him "alright...for this next take, I need you to take off your shoes...now take off your sock...the one with the hole in it...put it on the opposite hand.  Take all the change out of one pocket and put it in the other...now sing."

I'm pretty sure my weird requests took his mind off what he was doing, and he did much better on the next take.
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Ian Combs
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chrisj

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2006, 06:24:14 pm »

That's awesome Very Happy

You should see the Metallica DVD. One of my favorite bits is Jason Newsted saying basically this:

"Well, Kirk... really needs to be PUSHED... and Bob would be on him and on him like 'yeah, whatever, now let's hear the guitar player of the year solo- if you're done WARMING UP and all'... until Kirk is so pissed off and he's like FUCK YOU YRAGGGH and shreds it... THAT'S the take they use on the album."

Jason acts it all out, the better to make the point. It's great Very Happy (I think it may have been Bob Rock saying Kirk needed to be pushed, but that's the gist of the segment)

pg666

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2006, 04:52:22 pm »

to me, it just seemed like he was making laughably unnecessary overdubs to justify his role in the process. "it now sounds like rock song!" yeah, with 2 guitars it sounded like Celtic folk or something..

Quote:

sorry I'm a little slow in getting back to this, but that's NOTHING compared to some of the goofy things I've done to guys


the stuff you listed just seemed like trying to motivate a performance, which is probably necessary sometimes.
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wwittman

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2006, 05:00:23 pm »

Slimy?

Yeah he really fucked up that band's career, huh?

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William Wittman
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chrisj

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2006, 05:49:37 pm »

pg666 wrote on Sun, 20 August 2006 16:52

to me, it just seemed like he was making laughably unnecessary overdubs to justify his role in the process. "it now sounds like rock song!" yeah, with 2 guitars it sounded like Celtic folk or something..


Bear in mind that the band knew they were going into the studio with hooky, vocal-centered, sometimes kinda cheery-sounding songs and asked him to make it extremely heavy IN PRODUCTION.

Try singing 'Lithium' like James Taylor would've done it, for example  Twisted Evil

The man was doing what the band wanted him to do to them. End of story. He succeeded, too. Again, they knew that Cobain's Beatles influence and all those vocal melodies could have made them seem lightweight or 'pop'. Yes, that was also a huge reason for their success, but they wanted the grunge cred. Ironically, getting Butch Vig to make their sound into a nuclear doubletracked guitar meltdown did help them seem heavier, in the same sense that Def Leppard seems heavier than Fleetwood Mac.

Okay, now I'm _really_ digressing... Wink

iCombs

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2006, 06:39:59 pm »

chrisj wrote on Sat, 19 August 2006 17:24

That's awesome Very Happy

You should see the Metallica DVD. One of my favorite bits is Jason Newsted saying basically this:

"Well, Kirk... really needs to be PUSHED... and Bob would be on him and on him like 'yeah, whatever, now let's hear the guitar player of the year solo- if you're done WARMING UP and all'... until Kirk is so pissed off and he's like FUCK YOU YRAGGGH and shreds it... THAT'S the take they use on the album."

Jason acts it all out, the better to make the point. It's great Very Happy (I think it may have been Bob Rock saying Kirk needed to be pushed, but that's the gist of the segment)



If you go back and watch "A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica Part 1," you'll see what happened in real life.  That exchange is only part of it...the full hilarity of that situation really needs to be seen...Bob Rock was a complete dick and Kirk Hammett was a complete wusscakes guitar player...it was AWESOME!!!  

That Metallica DVD is pretty cool...that in conjunction with the "Year and a Half" stuff is pretty packed with "how they did it..." if you pay attention during "Year and a Half," you can pick up a lot.
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Ian Combs
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pg666

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2006, 08:46:45 pm »

Quote:

Again, they knew that Cobain's Beatles influence and all those vocal melodies could have made them seem lightweight or 'pop'


umm.. have you ever even heard their other records? hardly cheery pop..

i also thought it was common knowledge that Cobain hated the way that record sounded. guess not.

p.s. that 'year and a half in the life of metallica' movie is incredible
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jimmyjazz

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2006, 08:49:04 pm »

Somebody else said it, but "Nevermind" truly was the "perfect storm" of an album.  Criticizing any of the performances or key roleplayers seems silly.

From a melodic point of view, that album eclipses 99% of the major label albums released since the end of the Beatles' reign.  The same is true of the sonics.  It's that strong.  Lyrically, maybe not so much, but the overall vibe is just so amazing that small faults can be forgiven, and particularly so given the leeway we have tended to cut other great artists.  

I see "Nevermind" as the easy equalivalent of "London Calling" or "Outlandos D'Amour" or "So" or name your flavor of the decade.  All have faults, but so did "Revolver".  Most people are just reluctant to point them out.
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wwittman

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2006, 12:17:18 am »

Revolver has no faults.


Kurt Cobain apparently "hated" Nevermind after it became so successful.

that's not a sonic issue, it's a disdain for success, pyschological one.

no one can say Nirvana woudn't have otherwise "made it"... who knows?
but Nevermind IS the record that made the as important as they are.

it's revisionist at best to pretend otherwise.

so in that sense, being the most successful 'alternative' album ever, it's a bit silly in my view to think it was produced "wrong"


even if you've convinced yourself you know what "Kurt thought"
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William Wittman
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pg666

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2006, 10:53:30 am »

Quote:

so in that sense, being the most successful 'alternative' album ever, it's a bit silly in my view to think it was produced "wrong"


the only thing that's silly is not being able to form an opposing opinion about a record just because pop culture deems it 'important'. i wasn't even suggesting it should have been done differently or would have been successful no matter what. it could have been a Dazzling Killmen record for all i care; i would have still found these production choices kinda cheesy and superfluous, that's all.
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Frob

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2006, 06:03:39 pm »

it was "common knowledge" that kurt hated the sound of nevermind. at least from what i remember about that time. wither he did or not i guess no one really knows. he also didnt want "smells like teen spirit" on the album at all, let alone open with it.

maxim

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2006, 07:45:15 pm »

i wouldn't hold kurt cobain as an example of clear thinking

however, i don't think it's as b&w as is being presented

who benefits?

if the success of the record helped unhinge kurt's already fragile psyche and accelerated his demise (a highly dubious supposition, btw), then, perhaps, it wasn't worth it

even from the selfish audient pov

maybe, kurt could have survived and created 10 more records, each better than nevermind

then again, perhaps not
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wwittman

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Re: nirvana "drain you" session.
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2006, 01:04:11 am »

One could just as well theorise that had he continued to be produced by Bitch Vig he might have been a lot happier and made more quality records.

it's impossible to say what WOULD have happened... this is what DID happen.
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William Wittman
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