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[KAyo]

Hello All,

As usual, the listening has come to a close. Thanks to the groups and the contributor for giving us a challenge. Especially the one at 2:10 onwards. It was a nice song to spar with.

A few bungles of my own has annoyed me and still does to this day. (More on that later)

Nonetheless, the jam-up was great and all participants rose to the challenge, I thought. A tough piece and from what I heard, the group I was part of did well! So congrats, excluding myself.. of course.


I perceived the following: GROUP 1

DOMC
Tonality perception feels multiband’ish. A little sharp. Nice RMS.

Waltz
The tonality bit honky. A hair muddy. Nonetheless, listenable otherwise. Nice overall.

ggidluck
Sizzles and glitters and somewhat lean. Still, healthy RMS.

Viitalahde
Starts of well and keeps going so.. Maybe a tad sheeny. Enjoyed it!

fuse
Another one liked. Tone slightly brown. Good listening..

aivoryuk
That’s three in a row. From the go, it felt good. Feels a hair squeezed at the very top. Trifling disturbance though.

patrik_t
Bit muddy, but, energetic and tonal slightly brown. Pleasing overall. Nice.

MoreSpaceEcho
Scores well. Slightly squeezed and shinny. Enjoyed it overall.

nordenstam
Bit subtle and tilted towards the highs, bit fatiguing too. But, has a nice smack and brave RMS. Applause!


I had some failed errors in judgment, and made some rash decisions at the eleventh hour.
Starting late was the first error and another element that contributed is the lack of a sub in the setup. Over compensation and suspicion lead to me changing the plug that fed the Masterpiece, and looking for beef that, I couldn’t even hear, as is apparent and coupled with jumping to a somewhat home THX system to hear the changes drove me baggy, and thus submission was a clumsy one.

I had some 3 different leaner versions already made, and was really happy with them too, until, the blasted decision to change the plug and wrongly go with the fourth one. Believe you me, I have been kicking myself, ever since.

Once again, a simple Wump has reminded me, that, It’s not only learning to master music, but, one is always learning to master thy self in the process too.
Amen to that.

Entries have now closed: And the works judged on what was submitted. Period.
Still, If any of you have the time, please, do grab my earlier temp_02. Even if it were only MoreSpaceEcho, I’d be pleased.

See you all on the Techniques page shortly.


Regards,
KAyo

[MoreSpaceEcho]

Still, If any of you have the time, please, do grab my earlier temp_02. Even if it were only MoreEchoSpace, I’d be pleased.

oh man, you want me to listen to this song AGAIN?

*weeps*

hehe. downloading it now.

[zeropoint]

the mix? it wasn't any kind of crushed at all.

well i suppose that's subjective. okay, crushed maybe not. the bass region with the kick and the bass fighting each other was like two cats trapped in a small bag together tearing each other to shreds. so it was distracting and just made it sound way too thick. after a good notch at the right freq in between the most resonant freqs it helped to clear it a little. but i just felt like there was not really enough headroom to work with. i mean how can you punch someone in the gut effectively from one inch away unless you're some kind of kung fu master, but that's irrelevant here except as an illustration.

in the breakdown, it literally breaks down into a black hole of such density that it was a real trick to try to get that kick to punch through to the surface for a very short gasp for air. all the while without completely cutting off it's balls. there was a break down of whatever definition the instruments previously had.

it was certainly a balancing act to restore some kind of headroom  without pushing anything too far.

yeah, i overdid the k-stereo. it was a desperate attempt.
eq, of course.
but to strap a limiter around this thing, no way! not me. that is the last thing it needs in my opinion. maybe remix or restoration (not my specialty) if you're asking for something big, crankable, and awesome. paging alan parsons.. 

love the song, by the way. it's like mike patton jamming with deep purple! 

RIDE! 

a couple more to listen to and i'll post my reactions to the other masters.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

hhm, well, we disagree! but that's cool, no worries. glad you liked the tune, and the singer would be VERY pleased with the mike patton comparison.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

kayo, that version sounds MUCH better. I feel like it's just a bit too aggressive overall....the cymbals get a bit harsh at times, and it all feels very pushed to the front...which isn't inappropriate for this sort of tune, and lots of people would be really into it, i just prefer things a little more relaxed.

[ggidluck]

DOMC: Something about the low end I find a bit muffling to the track.

Waltz: A boost of the lower mids has maybe changed the overall tone of the track.
Perhaps also the highs have been attentuated a bit to take some edge off the cymbals(?)

Viitalahde: Good overall. I agree that this one is one of the best. Good balance.
After listening to this one I kind of used it as a reference. Since the original track was lower in level for comparison purposes.

Fuse: quite good. Perhaps some boost of highs have affected the overall balance. Still like it.

Aivoryuk: As usual Alex's entry is excellent.

Patrik_t: I don't find the lows overwhelming. The highs remain just enough to cut through. Sounds good cranked.

Nordenstam: I find this one truer to the original. Perhaps a bit low as has been mentioned. Nothing wrong with that as the instructions asked to not push the level.
There's something that I find appealing about this one in that the bass is not overwhelming.

Kayo: Sounds good. With good balance maintained.

ggidluck: Yes, after listening to the other entries mine lacks bass.
I overcompensated for what I felt was some masking caused by the low end of the recording. It could also be my listening setup.
In the past my entries have been too bright. Since then I have upgraded my speakers to Lipinski L505's and I changed my room too. So things are moving in the right direction, but still more work to do.
Also I'm starting to dabble a bit with the analog loop.

Thanks to all for your comments.

EDIT: Scott, sorry but I think I missed your entry for MoreSpaceEcho (MSE).
That entry sounds great. Good treatment of the low end vs the rest.

Kayo, number 2 sounds better. The low end changes clear up the track a bit more.

[KAyo]

Thanks Scott(MoreSpaceEcho) and Ggidluck..
Really appreciate your comments on the temp_02, some redemption better than none. I am now able to swallow food.  Hahahaha
Many have even been gentle even with the first one. Thanks guys.

I also agree with you Scott, the temp_02, bit vicious and up front. That to me.. now, is a very important question to be asked, when mastering our Wump’s. How up front or far back does the contributor want it? As it allows the choice of compression and limiting to get more and more apparent, for the engineer.

Yup Ggidluck, I agree .. So much more clarity and less daffiness.

Just to touch on Zeropoint’s conversation .. It was a challenging song wasn’t it? I agree, the bass and drums and keeping the vox still pointing outward was a trick and a half, and many excelled at this, which is why I gave the group kudos, for their efforts in getting many rights apart from the inevitable wrongs. We all do try and please as many listeners as possible. I too was cautious with the limiter and its use.

I wonder, how many, tried and actually went with a de-esser? I tried and further tweaked after the de-esser, but decided not to use it.
Clarity via M/S, could have been the go, had I paced myself for it etc.. I am sure some may have, the techniques page is going to be an interesting read. Looking forward to it.

- - - - - - - - -                   - - - - - - - - - -
We’ll give the comments a couple more days, before we jump into the Techniques. We don’t want to keep it too long either, as the zest and mental photograph of the approach dissipates rather quickly, as we move on to other things.


Regards to all,
KAyo

[Viitalahde]

I'm going to give MSE's entry another listen tomorrow. I myself began to question myself why exactly did I feel the way I did about his entry. Perhaps I can put my finger on the problem, or perhaps a fresh listen gives me another perspective.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

would love to hear your thoughts, good bad or otherwise!

Just to touch on Zeropoint’s conversation .. It was a challenging song wasn’t it?

honestly, i thought it was pretty straightforward, mastering-wise. it was REALLY challenging to mix.  i don't think i did the greatest job, by any stretch, but i remember getting to a point where i thought "i don't know how to make this sound any better", i played it for the band and they loved it, so i called it done.

after reading zeropoint's post yesterday, i went back and listened to it to try and hear it from his perspective, and, well, i really couldn't. i tried though!

i mean, yeah there's a lot of compression on everything except the synth and the toms, but there's nothing on the mix buss, and by modern rock standards i think that thing is pretty wide open. i can hear the bass drum just fine on the big half time section (what i assume he's referring to as the breakdown).

but anyway, even if i won't agree with you (hehe), i'd love it if you guys could talk about what you thought the problems were with the mix. a bunch of you guys have done 2 of my mixes now, so i'd love to hear your critiques. be as blunt as you like, you won't hurt my feelings, we're all friends here.

[ggidluck]

I would like to hear a bit more articulation in the vocals. Making them cut through a busy mix is probably a bit of a challenge.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

yeah it was hard....he was mic'd in a kind of roomy fashion and he's singing so fast most of the time...

[zeropoint]

which masters were
PeteG

bkuijt

UGP

pmx?

i don't see them in my downloads and i don't see them on the server.

[Viitalahde]

OK, I had a 2nd listen on MSE's entry.

For me, the problem is that it feels a little more S than M, but not in a M/S altered way but a remixed way. The leading instruments seem a little further back and I'm not feeling the rhythm the same way as in the mix. The top end feels slightly disjointed in the spectrum, and graphically I visualize it as an "O", type of sound, everything in order on tops and lows, left and right, but the main stuff is just a little away.

These things I find the most difficult in mastering. How to subjectively improve the material at hand, but not change the balance of the mix?

The mix itself was in my opinion in good shape, and I had little to complain. To tell you the truth, I never react to the mixes in a "boy that snare drum is up front" type of a way, it's more like "something in the mids keeps the attention on itself and above the high mids there's a cliff beyond where something should be happening in the time domain". I'm a little synesthetic, and I get odd feelings about sound, not colors blasting through my eyesight but I keep on thinking about geometric shapes, distances and stuff like that.

And that's why describing sound is so bloody difficult.

[UGP]

which masters were
PeteG

bkuijt

UGP

pmx?

i don't see them in my downloads and i don't see them on the server.

Don't know about the others, but you know that saying "life happens"
Had a friend (widowed one month) who was in town and stayed with me, as there was a "remembrance" in town. After that had to go help my little sister and her two kids move from WI to MN, so I just didn't have the time...

[zeropoint]

Don't know about the others, but you know that saying "life happens"
Had a friend (widowed one month) who was in town and stayed with me, as there was a "remembrance" in town. After that had to go help my little sister and her two kids move from WI to MN, so I just didn't have the time...

ok, hope everything is well with you. thanks for letting me know.

to the others, unless they changed their name on the master they uploaded or something, i'm just gonna go with what i've got for now. which, including mine, is 7 entries out of 11 sign-ups for my group. oh well..