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Author Topic: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques  (Read 8768 times)

cerberus

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2006, 12:52:47 pm »

hi patrik;

considering your goals, why no ssl clone?

jeff dinces

Patrik T

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2006, 03:31:14 pm »

cerberus wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 17:52

hi patrik;

considering your goals, why no ssl clone?

jeff dinces


Hm, my goals. I did not mention my goals.

They were based in the requests - lessen some nasal things in one violin, clearing some string-congestion and adding a touch of air. Regarding some of the droney notes around 100 Hz or so - well, not too much mock-up.

I went pretty much for the request for drums/strings to play in the same space.

Those were the goals.

best regards
patrik
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cerberus

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #62 on: August 07, 2006, 05:55:50 pm »

undertow's revision is very engaging for me... it surfs the boundary between electric and acoustic without needing to lean too hard in one or the other direction, nor does it seem overtly self aware of either "style", but is rather true to itself.  (imo as music should always sound) it's in glorious full stereo too.

ged's revision is about 6db louder in terms of rms, edging toward rock, but not losing it's cool.. i find it's well balanced in every regard and not sounding too affected by processing; though i hear a  slight graininess covering up some details.

jeff dinces

Ged Leitch

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2006, 06:55:07 pm »

cerberus wrote on Mon, 07 August 2006 22:55

undertow's revision is very engaging for me... it surfs the boundary between electric and acoustic without needing to lean too hard in one or the other direction, nor does it seem overtly self aware of either "style", but is rather true to itself.  (imo as music should always sound) it's in glorious full stereo too.

ged's revision is about 6db louder in terms of rms, edging toward rock, but not losing it's cool.. i find it's well balanced in every regard and not sounding too affected by processing; though i hear a  slight graininess covering up some details.

jeff dinces



Hey Jeff thanks for the comments mate, I appreciate the feedback.
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cerberus

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2006, 12:13:45 pm »

ATOR wrote on Tue, 01 August 2006 13:01

Here in the chain I automated the gain to enhance the dynamics, I pulled down the beginnings of the sirens and the quiet middle part. Steve wanted the first kick/cello attack to hit zero so the only way to enhance the siren dynamics was down.
i think this approach should  have extended the dynamic range, making more contrast between the loud and soft parts. it should have increased the sense of tension, added drama. so i wonder why i was disappointed this way in your master. (2323)


garretg wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 00:19

I used a volume envelope on the track to dip the level a bit during the crescendos... the level drops are something like 1-1.5 db.  I trimmed the track up 1.8db to bring the loudest peak in the song to -0.1db.
i think reducing the dynamic rang this way may have been key in your achieving what i felt was low overall distortion considering how hard you seem to hit the limiter. i wonder what it would sound like if you were to simply reduce the limiting by a few db. (1234)

mbruce333 wrote on Wed, 02 August 2006 12:53

First in Sound Forge 8, I wanted to do a little work on the gliss sections.  In Steves request, he said they needed to be brought to a similar level of the rest of the tune without losing the impact of the crescendos, and they were a bit brittle.

So, in SoundForge 8, just on the gliss sections:

Waves Ren EQ, -2.4db, 3750hz, Q=3.86 to take off some edge of the violins

Waves Ren Comp,  1.44:1 with about 3db reduction on the peaks of the crescendos.  

Saved as a new version, than opened up in a WaveLab 6 montage: ...

When listening to the gliss sections, I decided that I wasn't quite happy with impact at the end of each section. So, back in SoundForge, I used an L2 to just bump up (+2db) the kick drum hit that provides the impact at the end of the gliss sections.  I just wanted a little more "umph" to help release the wonderful tension built in the glissandos.

While I felt this worked pretty well for the first section, that same hit and the end of the second section just isn't as solid, so it didn't work as well there.  I thought about trying to copy the kick from the first one and mix it into the second, but felt I would be over stepping my place, so I went with the same L2 treatment as the first one.
why did i like this one so much? i think most of us applied a technical approach to it. but you took a more musical approach than anyone else. to recognize the disproportional importance to this music of a single kick drum hit, imo  takes more than a good ear.  i could feel it when i was working on it, but i didn't open my mind to it the way you did.  i was too busy doing what i wanted to before i even listened critically to the mix rather than listening with an open mind before i determined my strategy.  and there is this whole other dimension of control that eighteen of us either didn't consider, ignored, or rejected. (0603)

jeff dinces

garret

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2006, 12:30:15 pm »

cerberus wrote on Tue, 08 August 2006 12:13


garretg wrote on Thu, 03 August 2006 00:19

I used a volume envelope on the track to dip the level a bit during the crescendos... the level drops are something like 1-1.5 db.  I trimmed the track up 1.8db to bring the loudest peak in the song to -0.1db.
i think reducing the dynamic rang this way may have been key in your achieving what i felt was low overall distortion considering how hard you seem to hit the limiter. i wonder what it would sound like if you were to simply reduce the limiting by a few db. (1234)




Thanks for the feedback.... confused though... my submission was 7288, not 1234.

-G
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mbruce333

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2006, 12:57:44 pm »

Thanks Jeff!  I'm glad you enjoyed it so much, it was a really cool project to dig into.  

It's funny how some tunes seem to have more room to think about them in a more musical way than others.  This one definitely had many different directions it could go and it just seemed to lend itself to thinking in a more "musical" rather than "what settings on the gear" kind of way.  I'd still like to find time to re-visit mine and see if I'm capable of taking it farther, without screwing up the music!

This was also my first attempt at processing certain sections independently to accomplish a specific goal for those phrases, and then look at processing the tune as a whole.  I wished I had done this in WUMP5, to be honest!

Anyway, enough blabbing outta me for goodness sake!

Mike Bruce
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cerberus

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2006, 01:14:33 pm »

garretg wrote on Tue, 08 August 2006 12:30

Thanks for the feedback.... confused though... my submission was 7288, not 1234.

-G
7288 was the one i referred to..then i went to reference the numbers for this post (to help others follow along), and that is where i made the error. my comments apply to 7288. sorry i f'd that up.

i know you did quite a lot of other work the same week as this wump (,e.g two mixes for i.m.p) so i think it's worth mentioning that you appear to be able to perform under intense pressure.

jeff dinces

ATOR

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2006, 01:27:38 pm »

cerberus wrote on Tue, 08 August 2006 18:13

ATOR wrote on Tue, 01 August 2006 13:01

Here in the chain I automated the gain to enhance the dynamics, I pulled down the beginnings of the sirens and the quiet middle part. Steve wanted the first kick/cello attack to hit zero so the only way to enhance the siren dynamics was down.
i think this approach should  have extended the dynamic range, making more contrast between the loud and soft parts. it should have increased the sense of tension, added drama. so i wonder why i was disappointed this way in your master. (2323)

jeff dinces



Well I guess you would have been disappointed even more if I hadn't done that  Razz  I didn't bring them down too much because Steve said he wanted to hear everything while driving his car. When I had brought them down more I sorta envisioned Steve in an open Jeep on the highway saying: "What the f*ck, I can't hear the start of my sirens." So I turned them up again. Basicly I went with rocksong dynamics instead of classical ones because I thought that was what Steve wanted.
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cerberus

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2006, 01:36:32 pm »

jeep... lol peter!  

i was thinking to make the mid to top end real strong so it would stand out it over the shusssssssss of steve's snowboard...or did he say "subway"? also to drown out chirping birds in the park...nobody gave them permission to enter the tracking room. i did have fun, even though i think i could have done better to try and meet all of steve's requests, which i did not do either.

jeff dinces

garret

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Re: WUMP VI -- Mastering Techniques
« Reply #70 on: August 08, 2006, 01:43:44 pm »

cerberus wrote on Tue, 08 August 2006 13:14

of other work the same week as this wump (,e.g two mixes for i.m.p) so i think it's worth mentioning that you appear to be able to perform under intense pressure.



Eh, not too much pressure really.  Fun more than anything else. Audio work/writing music is a side thing for me, not my full time job (I'm an IT guy)... the biggest thing was it took precedence over working on my own music for a few days.  I also have an energetic two-year old kid I'm often juggling while pushing faders... does that count for more bonus points?

Back to your feedback...   I tried to let the track only distort during the crescendos, as a substitute for volume.  (I.e., distorted stuff sounds louder than clean stuff, even at the same rms power).

The envelope trick was based on the idea that if you can sneak the "lead in" to a crescendo down a bit, the crescendo doesn't need to peak so high to seem loud in contrast.  I can't remember where I started the dip.. maybe 10 seconds before each crescendo.  Not sure that's bad mastering practice, but it works for me.

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