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Author Topic: WUMP VI discussion  (Read 14239 times)

cerberus

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2006, 03:21:34 AM »

the client asked for certain things to be done, so whether they were done, or even attempted or not would seem more important than our opinions of how the track ought to sound, imo.  some of the comments i read seem very astute... others seem to forget that the client brief was a higher priority than anything  else here.

please go read the brief before you comment, if you want to declare that you didn't follow it but instead followed your own muse, then please say which perspective the review is coming from: your own, or your interpretation of steve's.


jeff dinces

Ged Leitch

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2006, 09:24:55 AM »

cerberus wrote on Wed, 26 July 2006 08:21

the client asked for certain things to be done, so whether they were done, or even attempted or not would seem more important than our opinions of how the track ought to sound, imo.  some of the comments i read seem very astute... others seem to forget that the client brief was a higher priority than anything  else here.

please go read the brief before you comment, if you want to declare that you didn't follow it but instead followed your own muse, then please say which perspective the review is coming from: your own, or your interpretation of steve's.


jeff dinces




I suppose if theres a problem with the critiques, then it would probably be in listening to a ton of tracks back to back.

I think if you have say ten set up in a playlist, and are writing notes about them as you listen in real time, then its all coming down to what you heard before IMO.
E.G. - the first one you heard was a bit dark, then the next one seems really bright in comparison, so its now too bright cause of what your ears have adjusted to, and vice versa, the same with level i guess.

Thats why now, i just listen to the track on their own, not one after the other, otherwise i'll just compare it to what went before.
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Patrik T

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2006, 09:32:50 AM »

Ged Leitch wrote on Wed, 26 July 2006 14:24



Thats why now, i just listen to the track on their own, not one after the other, otherwise i'll just compare it to what went before.


Ged, that's very wise and probably the most honest way to un-bias oneself from tracks that WILL influence each other. I find myself to go through a few tracks (with enough ear-rest in between them), leave it, come back a few hours later and shuffle through a few more and then take a new break and so on.

BRGRDS
Patrik
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HansP

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2006, 09:37:52 AM »

let me utter a contrary thought:

after the fact, steve's opinion doesn't make anything, except in that he pays the engineer when done ok, or not if not.

we can train to sit in steve's chair, and of course how to get the (virtual game) gig, but to me the "second guess" is most important.

in the public, no one at all would care for the engineers and the mastering formula.
what we can do here, is evaluate "steve" himself, and give him feedback about the possible results of different attempts on his sound, in the way an innocent listener would do (buy or drop).

I care only for one thing when I listen to all the tracks: would I buy the CD or do I (me myself personally) hate the sound?

when we are acting out our second guess skills, steve can receive kind of marketing statistics about different (potential) flavors of his production.

we have to see the artist's intention (and he will comment so that is clear), and we have to see the customer who will hopefully spend money on the result.
in thankfully taking steve's offer to work with the music and investing time, we are also kind of customers.

--
after reading Ged:
technically, I compare every track with the raw one and my own, and then with others that sound similar. my player allows very quick switching and positioning. I want to be an egotistic listener because everyone spending money is exactly that.
facts are on the table, now we are picky in our own interest.
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Ged Leitch

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2006, 09:41:48 AM »


It all comes down to this>>>

Hit play > listen > does it work or not???

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mbruce333

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2006, 11:41:40 AM »

Ged Leitch wrote on Wed, 26 July 2006 06:41


It all comes down to this>>>

Hit play > listen > does it work or not???




Once again Ged, I think you nailed it.  I also don't think you can listen to one version after another and expect to keep any sense of perspective.  

I've started to use this method of evaluating WUMPs....
Only open one version at a time, listen to it, and while I'm closing one file and opening the next one, I'll switch to a CD that I've left plyaing in a loop of something that I know and/or is similar in style to what I'm working on.  This way, I get a little something to keep my ears from getting too far out of whack while switching WUMP files.

It's tough to keep fresh for 21 versions of the same thing, thats for sure.  But, this has been my favorite WUMP so far!  I should have some comments ready soon....

If any of you happen to be in WA state over the weekend, come to Ellensburg for the Jazz in the Valley festival and say hi.  I'll be mixing FOH at the main stage all weekend.

Later!
Mike Bruce

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cerberus

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2006, 01:34:12 PM »

mbruce333 wrote on Wed, 26 July 2006 11:41

Ged Leitch wrote on Wed, 26 July 2006 06:41


It all comes down to this>>>

Hit play > listen > does it work or not???




Once again Ged, I think you nailed it.  I also don't think you can listen to one version after another and expect to keep any sense of perspective.  

I've started to use this method of evaluating WUMPs....
Only open one version at a time, listen to it, and while I'm closing one file and opening the next one, I'll switch to a CD that I've left plyaing in a loop of something that I know and/or is similar in style to what I'm working on.  This way, I get a little something to keep my ears from getting too far out of whack while switching WUMP files.

in other words, like a wine taster. like it's been done for centuries. by now most would agree that there is only one correct way to do it.

Quote:

If any of you happen to be in WA state over the weekend, come to Ellensburg for the Jazz in the Valley festival and say hi.  I'll be mixing FOH at the main stage all weekend.
that sounds like it could be fodder for a future wump...i'd like to do a cd... that would be consistent enough to be easier perhaps than a studio album. << ok too large to download, how about a three song ep?>>

jeff dinces

TotalSonic

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2006, 02:06:41 PM »

Some comments on this thread make me want to propose the following piece of food for thought:

I believe sometimes an ME demonstrating that they can follow instructions very well is a bit more important than them making things sound good to themselves.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Greg Youngman

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2006, 02:15:15 PM »

I hang around here a bit, but I must say I haven't been keeping up on this WUMP.  Is there a way for a non-participant to get a disc or files and offer up an opinion?

TNX
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TotalSonic

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2006, 02:33:01 PM »

Greg Youngman wrote on Wed, 26 July 2006 19:15

I hang around here a bit, but I must say I haven't been keeping up on this WUMP.  Is there a way for a non-participant to get a disc or files and offer up an opinion?

TNX


Go to ftp://www.massivemastering.com - enter "wump" for both user name and password, open the "wump_6_submissions" folder - and you can then download the files.

As far as the original 24bit/88.2kHz unprocessed mix file - but sorry, I am not distributing this to anyone else at this point.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

HansP

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2006, 03:08:06 PM »

I hope my playing devil's advocate is not too disturbing.
when I receive money I am following exactly the wishes of the client. but I ask questions and I show alternatives, and sometimes little changes came out to the advantage of the project.   or it was like "lets do it as we had it". no problem.
75% fulfillment in a voluntary art project is quite good btw  Cool
some cats here doing really really well!
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cerberus

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2006, 03:43:43 PM »

not disturbing me hans; also wump can be a science lab...

i just wanted to point out that the audiophile perspective seems beside the point; it seems very tempting to try and pursue it at this moment, but i think it is a sidetrack issue [especially] in this wump.

IMO>> let's say you are evaluating a master here and you notice that all the transients on the percussion seem time-smeared: it is still not an audiophile problem; but it's a problem to be hearing a major alteration which the client did not request.

i will try some critiques based only on the client brief and try to run through it point by point with each master. maybe some others will try it this way too.


jeff dinces

chrisj

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2006, 05:40:00 PM »

TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 26 July 2006 14:06

I believe sometimes an ME demonstrating that they can follow instructions very well is a bit more important than them making things sound good to themselves.


I'd want to know which toons seemed to follow your instructions very well, before I paid a lot of attention to that Wink my own feeling is that I overcompensated on certain instructions, which is unhelpful.

Maybe that can be your critique, since it was your instructions Smile

I'm particularly interested in whether there were common errors involved- did a lot of people 'get it', or did a lot of people blow it?

Ged Leitch

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2006, 05:41:41 PM »


Personally, i'd like to see more reviews of the tracks please...

even just a few at a time, you can always update your post when you get a chance to do the rest of em.
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TotalSonic

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Re: WUMP VI discussion
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2006, 06:00:31 PM »

Ged Leitch wrote on Wed, 26 July 2006 22:41


Personally, i'd like to see more reviews of the tracks please...

even just a few at a time, you can always update your post when you get a chance to do the rest of em.


Folks - give me a few more days - I'm in the midst of a few things including getting some diffusors up on the ceiling - and Kronos Quartet is playing tomorrow so can't miss that - but I'd say by  Saturday I am going to post very detailed evaluations for everybody.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
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