R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Why is vinyl better?  (Read 3823 times)

nicholastaplin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Why is vinyl better?
« on: June 11, 2011, 12:18:37 am »

I've chilled out since I hit my 30's so I can't rant like I used to, but why is this format better?  I try to analyze it from every aspect and I can't figure it out.  My friends Deerhoof put out crazy ass Pro Tools to the max productions, mastered by the drummer to CD, cut directly to vinyl and it sounds way radder than the CD it is cut from.  Why is that?  I have a record label now.  Vinyl is definitely the emphasis, if only because what I hear on my (pretty fucking nice) turntable setup sounds the business.

Nicholas


Logged

Bob Olhsson

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2011, 10:26:04 pm »

Most CD players have virtually no analog headroom.

Joram

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
  • Real Full Name: Joram Pinxteren
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2011, 11:05:53 am »

It could have to do with artifacts caused by steep filtering after DA conversion. This article might be interesting for you:http://www.temporalcoherence.nl/docs/HighReso.pdf. A couple of months ago it was discussed at a Dutch AES-meeting.

PRobb

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
  • Real Full Name: Peter Robbins
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2011, 04:28:22 pm »

Are you saying a record cut FROM a CD sounds better than the CD it was cut from, or were the vinyl and the CD both cut from the same source?
Logged

Bob Olhsson

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2011, 05:49:44 pm »

Are you saying a record cut FROM a CD sounds better than the CD it was cut from, or were the vinyl and the CD both cut from the same source?
It would depend on the quality of the D to A converter. Almost all vinyl preamps have better headroom than most CD players. If vinyl were cut from a good D to A converter or from moderate level files instead of a CD, it's very likely that the vinyl would sound better.

Jim Sam

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2011, 07:01:04 pm »

My friends Deerhoof put out crazy ass Pro Tools to the max productions, mastered by the drummer to CD, cut directly to vinyl and it sounds way radder than the CD it is cut from.  Why is that?
Tracing distortions, summed-to-mono bass, cartridge/stylus frequency bumps, and possible poor capacitance loading on the preamp's part.
Logged

blairl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
  • Real Full Name: Blair Leishman
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2011, 11:09:57 pm »

At the last AES conference in San Francisco (2010), they had a panel that talked about how fantastic vinyl is.  They invited Doug Sax, one of the most successful mastering engineers of all time, vinyl or otherwise, to participate.  While everyone was singing the praises of vinyl, Doug Sax pretty much said that he thought good digital was better than vinyl and he still has hopes for a commercially successful high resolution digital format.  He kind of put a damper on the hype, and I have to say that I tend to agree with him.  However, the key is "good" digital.
Logged

John Roberts {JR}

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 94
  • Real Full Name: John Roberts
  • 10,000+
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 09:12:14 am »

+1...  Any one close to the technology is very aware of all it's shortcomings.

Maybe you can find a digital vinyl plug-in that allows you to decide which flaws to bring back.

JR



Logged
Circular Science     http://RESOTUNE.COM

"tune it or don't play it..."

Jim Williams

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 575
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 01:37:21 pm »

Doug Sax did all my releases back in the 1980's. He was never satisfied with vinyl and we went through hoops attempting to overcome it's limitations.

5 generations removed from the master tape was my biggest problem. I would book 10:30 am mastering sessions the day after all the prep work so I could fly down Santa Monic Blvd. to Sheffield Labs to be first up for the 1:00 pm bath and silvering of the acetates. It was a race to preserve micro transients that would have been lost if those masters were allowed to sit overnight. To us it was worth the extra effort.

One of the biggest decisions was song order. We knew the outside tracks sounded best, inside tracks the worst so it was a battle determining sonic quality vs song order, you always wanted to have the last song memorable but knew it would sound worse for it.

I agree with Doug, good digital beats vinyl. It's just hard to hear good digital as it's not common. Most 'semi-pro' digital gear sounds like ass, but you already know that.
Logged

Ethan Winer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9
  • Real Full Name: Ethan Winer
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2011, 12:46:31 pm »

Maybe you can find a digital vinyl plug-in that allows you to decide which flaws to bring back.

Here ya go:

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/

It's free even. But it's pretty lame IMO.

--Ethan

Jim Williams

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 575
Re: Why is vinyl better?
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2011, 09:35:00 am »

Most CD players have virtually no analog headroom.

Not too sure about that. The converters run on 5 volts, only those players using a single 5 volt rail for the analog filter and output stage would have a max level of about 4.3 volts or so. If they use a rail to rail opamp, that limitation is removed.

All the older CD players I've seen use crappy opamps running on + - 5 volts or + - 12 or 15 volts. That places the clipping points far above digital zero from the converter chip's output. Slew induced THD from those opamps is the sonic problem I hear, it's more of a THD vs frequency problem than a broad band clipping problem.
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up