R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness  (Read 3970 times)

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
#1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« on: July 17, 2006, 08:12:46 PM »

the thread of that thread, imo, was that the medium creates its own magic, and that to attempt to capture "reality" is unrealistic and naive

by definition, it's a flattened version of reality

personally, i think it's a worthwhile if challenging pursuit

i have a word to describe the phenomenon: realistical, ie attempting (and succeeding) to look realistic

please, discuss

Logged

rankus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5560
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2006, 08:20:36 PM »

maxim wrote on Mon, 17 July 2006 17:12



personally, i think it's a worthwhile if challenging pursuit





This is the only reason I do this at all.  It's because it is difficult if not impossible.... If it ever gets easy, I will likely find something else to do.  
Logged
Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

"There is no crisis in energy, the crisis is in imagination" ~ Buckminster Fuller

Bill Mueller

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4502
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2006, 10:46:06 PM »

Ok Max,

It's THE obvious analogy, but capturing a living human being performing music with the pathetically poor tools that we have at our disposal, is about as realistic as turning the grand canyon into a 3"X5" postcard. Color even.

However, if we are good enough at using these God awful tools, just a bit of the humanity, the Godliness, the brilliance peeks through, to send a chill up our spine. Michelangelo cut David from a block of stone with a hammer and a chisel. I have seen it. Up close. Who is it a testament to? Humanity, the Creator, or Michelangelo? I don't really know, but I feel pretty insecure in it's presence. All I know is that I have been blessed/cursed with the desire to capture an ocean of genius in a tea cup.

Best Regards,

Bill
Logged
"Don't take it personally. But this shit is a science." J.J.Blair

“The Internet is only a means of communication,” he wrote. “It is not an amorphous extraterrestrial body with an entitlement to norms that run counter to the fundamental principles of human rights. There is nothing in the criminal or civil law which legalizes that which is otherwise illegal simply because the transaction takes place over the Internet.” Irish judge, Peter Charleton

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2006, 12:15:40 AM »

yes, it is a miracle it ever happens

but it does... with regularity

so, maybe, we, as humans, are so good at symbolism, that we are able to conjure up entire worlds with a sniff of an oily rag (especially, certain types of oil)

in fact, the inadequacy of the tools may be of help in this process
Logged

maxdimario

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3811
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2006, 05:19:52 AM »

OK, but the fact that it gets to #1 is a different story.

that is a complex system of events of which music is only a fraction.

perhaps 'masterpiece' is what you mean?

or maybe something that wakes people up and makes them want to buy it so that they can have the pleasure of listening to it when they like?

anyway as with the postcard analogy, there is the ability to capture the subject in the most flattering way possible.. which may mean altering or processing the image if the subject in itself is not naturally interesting..or suits your artistic purpose.

or there is the research for the 'perfect' subject... where you spend 98% of your time looking for the perfect subject.. and then capturing it as simply and realistically as your medium permits.

obviously the medium needs to be understood and utilized based on it's strengths and weaknesses.

for instance.. if you have a grand piano which is only 140 cm long do you try and build it so that it has the same bass as a steinway concert grand, or do you try and exploit the smaller frame of the piano to get a softer and more delicate sound than the steinway permits with its massive string tension and mass?

I think that nature is the best creator and that at the base of any abstract or surreal work of art which actually WORKS there is a very strong natural talent behind it all.
Logged

maxim

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5828
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2006, 07:01:09 AM »

max wrote:

" if you have a grand piano which is only 140 cm long...."

you recoord it as is and pitchshift it itb
Logged

danickstr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3641
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2006, 09:57:04 AM »

one thing that hit records possess IMO is charisma of some sort.  I think the artist believes in what they are doing for whatever reason, and in a way that connects with enough of the outside world somehow.  
Not precise in my wording, I know, but I feel something from a hit song that reaches out to me in some way.  Other songs do it too, and some top charters don't reach me at all, but I usually can connect more with a hit song in some way that is intimate for us.
Hummable hooks help. And in-tune vocals.  And clean production.  It's funy how people underestimate these or just fail to attain them on a grand scale.  I am always thinking about them, but I get tangled up in technical stuff, so I am not an exception.
Logged
Nick Dellos - MCPE  

Food for thought for the future:              http://http://www.kurzweilai.net/" target="_blank">http://www.kurzweilai.net/www.physorg.com

McAllister

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2006, 10:21:22 AM »

Quote:

Ok Max,

It's THE obvious analogy, but capturing a living human being performing music with the pathetically poor tools that we have at our disposal, is about as realistic as turning the grand canyon into a 3"X5" postcard. Color even.

However, if we are good enough at using these God awful tools, just a bit of the humanity, the Godliness, the brilliance peeks through, to send a chill up our spine. Michelangelo cut David from a block of stone with a hammer and a chisel. I have seen it. Up close. Who is it a testament to? Humanity, the Creator, or Michelangelo? I don't really know, but I feel pretty insecure in it's presence. All I know is that I have been blessed/cursed with the desire to capture an ocean of genius in a tea cup.

Best Regards,

Bill


Post of the month, IMO.

M
Logged
Only put off until tomorrow what you are willing to die having left undone.

Bob Olhsson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3968
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2006, 12:30:02 PM »

Bill Mueller wrote on Mon, 17 July 2006 21:46

...I have seen it. Up close. Who is it a testament to? Humanity, the Creator, or Michelangelo? I don't really know, but I feel pretty insecure in it's presence. All I know is that I have been blessed/cursed with the desire to capture an ocean of genius in a tea cup.
This brilliantly describes the exact experience I've had.

Peter Weihe

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2006, 12:45:07 PM »

Bill Mueller wrote on Tue, 18 July 2006 04:46

Ok Max,

It's THE obvious analogy, but capturing a living human being performing music with the pathetically poor tools that we have at our disposal, is about as realistic as turning the grand canyon into a 3"X5" postcard. Color even.

However, if we are good enough at using these God awful tools, just a bit of the humanity, the Godliness, the brilliance peeks through, to send a chill up our spine. Michelangelo cut David from a block of stone with a hammer and a chisel. I have seen it. Up close. Who is it a testament to? Humanity, the Creator, or Michelangelo? I don't really know, but I feel pretty insecure in it's presence. All I know is that I have been blessed/cursed with the desire to capture an ocean of genius in a tea cup.

Best Regards,

Bill


Thanks Bill,
great thoughts very well said.
We can use this quote as a shortcut for future discussions.

Peter
Logged
Peter Weihe

Roadster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 403
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2006, 02:00:07 PM »

Funny. I just happened to jot this down yesterday:

Somewhere over the course of time I began to look at my music like it were a painting. The more I went from canvas to canvas, working diligently to uncover my creative muse and best performance, the less time I wanted to spend messing with the mat and the frame. And it’s also about that time you can really use another set of ears and a subjective opinion.
Logged
Rich
Road's End Studio
Musician, Songwriter, Research Technician on Creative Muse

rankus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5560
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2006, 02:48:16 PM »

danickstr wrote on Tue, 18 July 2006 06:57

one thing that hit records possess IMO is charisma of some sort.  I think the artist believes in what they are doing for whatever reason, and in a way that connects with enough of the outside world somehow.  
.



I get it.  

I have been saying to singers lately that they HAVE to believe the words they are singing...

Think about this:  A close friend or spouse, child, etc. calls on the phone and seems cheerful and says "everything's OK", but there's something wrong and you can tell....  

I feel this is the same with music / singing.  You can't hide or fake the real emotion even if you can't see the other person... there is a deeper level of communication going on than we can quantify...
Logged
Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

"There is no crisis in energy, the crisis is in imagination" ~ Buckminster Fuller

leftandproud2003

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 176
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2006, 03:02:00 PM »

McAllister wrote on Tue, 18 July 2006 07:21

Quote:

Ok Max,

It's THE obvious analogy, but capturing a living human being performing music with the pathetically poor tools that we have at our disposal, is about as realistic as turning the grand canyon into a 3"X5" postcard. Color even.

However, if we are good enough at using these God awful tools, just a bit of the humanity, the Godliness, the brilliance peeks through, to send a chill up our spine. Michelangelo cut David from a block of stone with a hammer and a chisel. I have seen it. Up close. Who is it a testament to? Humanity, the Creator, or Michelangelo? I don't really know, but I feel pretty insecure in it's presence. All I know is that I have been blessed/cursed with the desire to capture an ocean of genius in a tea cup.

Best Regards,

Bill


Post of the month, IMO.

M




Yep. Superbly stated Bill. Empathize hugely.
Also agree about having to believe what you're singing. Absolutely accurate.
Logged

danickstr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3641
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2006, 02:25:26 AM »

I also can't help but agree with the grand canyon David analogies, but my concern is that while in awe, we might miss something, so we do have to keep one ear to the whetstone and the other in the clouds so to speak.

On a technical note, I had put in my post from the first thread that the one production theme that seems to tie most of the songs I like together (hits) is the mix sounds good on small speakers.  I think this is the most fundamental test of a good mix.  I am talking about a paper cone 1" all-around speaker that is attached to a 13" color TV made by Sonsubishasonic. Or my favorite, Koby.  If your mix doesn't work on this speaker, you are lost.  

Tip one to pass this test is to start taking bits of bass out of everything.  Sacrilige I know, but 1" speakers will whooof out on 40Hz and leave no energy for the rest of the tune.  Then vox way up front and trebley, lots of compressed hat or shaker with volume, and don't fill in too much with other stuff all the time.  Leave holes.  

all these tips can be contradicted with tons of examples, and are a guideline to just hopefully make people think about breaking any rule they want, to get something to sound good on a shit speaker.

one hint: if it sounds good on shitty speakers, think how good it will sound on good ones.
Logged
Nick Dellos - MCPE  

Food for thought for the future:              http://http://www.kurzweilai.net/" target="_blank">http://www.kurzweilai.net/www.physorg.com

maxdimario

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3811
Re: #1 hit sound: ressurrected thread minus the rudeness
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2006, 05:57:54 AM »

I've had this problem too, with a very good singer friend of mine who prefers to sing smoothly and on time and looks at me like I'm a fool when I try to get him to feel the song more deeply by suggesting a scene or whatever. It seems he hates to let his inner self show unnecessarily.

The fact that a singer believes in what he or she is doing and is projecting it is fundamental to get a good rhythm track and arrangement down... if the singer is just singing notes it's very difficult to get a groove going on.

...actually I've found that a convincing vocal makes it easy to mix the whole track as well.

years ago I think it was an accepted reality that a good singer was a storyteller who sung from the heart or had something magical and mystical to express.

Nowadays it's almost as if magic and abstract non-verbal communication is a no-no.

Culture nowadays is severely lacking on the spiritual side of things.

Actually, I think the best tracking sessions come from bands that are very tight spiritually.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 

Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.083 seconds with 19 queries.