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Author Topic: Pitch/Catch  (Read 18309 times)

Table Of Tone

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2011, 05:57:17 pm »

Any experienced WL users know how to mimic that workflow when WL is catching?  I've been through the ASK tutorial and spent loads of time poking around the menus...couldn't find anything.
You can do that with WL6 by opening the ASIO plug in the top slot and setting it to external input and selecting the sample rate if you're wanting anything other than 44.1.
You then press play to monitor the audio with any plugs you want in slots 2 to 8.
Just select render to record and press stop once you've put it down.

I couldn't seem to get WL7 (mac) to do this when I tried it this morning.
Actually managed to crash it too!
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Matt_G

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2011, 11:36:16 am »

Lynx AES16e card arrived today, set it up, Core Audio & soundBlade 2.0 3286 picked up the card instantly. Set it up for External sync on W/C BNC from my Forssell A/D at 44.1kHz, everything locked beautifully. Created a new session in sB, fired up PT's 9.0.2 at 96kHz for playback, set sB to catch at 44.1kHz. Played back PT's & enjoyed a glitch free experience. Mastering through this signal flow was everything I was hoping it would be. With the exception of working/listening to the 16bit 44.1kHz all day (not as rewarding sonically as hearing hi-res 24bit 96kHz all day).

After some testing it was quite apparent that the finished product using this work-flow, sounded more natural than an offline SRC'd version of a 96kHz capture. The most noticeable thing I discovered was that the image felt more stable (stronger center), less smearing of transients (drums retained more snap/punch), more body in the LF's, less hype in the HF's. Negatives... distortion from limiting or A/D clipping was a touch more obvious than the 96kHz pass. 
     
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jdg

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2011, 03:23:15 pm »

thats why im surprised it works (two copies of slingBlade)
it should be clobbering its prefs left and right...
it might load it into ram and write prefs on close, but wtf knows....

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John McCaig
-the caption captain

Table Of Tone

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2011, 06:06:28 pm »

Lynx AES16e card arrived today, set it up, Core Audio & soundBlade 2.0 3286 picked up the card instantly. Set it up for External sync on W/C BNC from my Forssell A/D at 44.1kHz, everything locked beautifully. Created a new session in sB, fired up PT's 9.0.2 at 96kHz for playback, set sB to catch at 44.1kHz. Played back PT's & enjoyed a glitch free experience. Mastering through this signal flow was everything I was hoping it would be. With the exception of working/listening to the 16bit 44.1kHz all day (not as rewarding sonically as hearing hi-res 24bit 96kHz all day).

After some testing it was quite apparent that the finished product using this work-flow, sounded more natural than an offline SRC'd version of a 96kHz capture. The most noticeable thing I discovered was that the image felt more stable (stronger center), less smearing of transients (drums retained more snap/punch), more body in the LF's, less hype in the HF's. Negatives... distortion from limiting or A/D clipping was a touch more obvious than the 96kHz pass. 

Good news is that sB 2.0 build 3286 is extremely solid on Intel/Snow Leopard. Looks like I jumped in at just the right time.

   
That's a very cool thing that it all works and that you're noticing a mainly positive difference!
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Treelady

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2011, 11:00:26 pm »

We are such dweebs.

I'm happy I know you all. (really).

What a thread.

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______________________________________________
Garrett Haines
Chief Mastering Engineer, Treelady Studios, Pittsburgh, PA
Senior Contributor, Tape Op Magazine

Matt_G

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #35 on: June 21, 2011, 12:31:45 am »

We are happy to twiddle knobs (no rude come backs please  ::) ), rubbing our chin as we lean into the sweet spot. Once in a while we even put our lab coats on & when we discover new things we get all giddy like a little school girl. Yes we are audio nerds/geeks/dweebs but you know what...

It's the best job in the world :) 
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adamgonsa

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #36 on: June 21, 2011, 02:04:36 am »

Dirty, low down, rotten, shameless nerds.  Good way to be.  :D

Mastering through this signal flow was everything I was hoping it would be. With the exception of working/listening to the 16bit 44.1kHz all day (not as rewarding sonically as hearing hi-res 24bit 96kHz all day).
So Matt, are you catching at 16-bit as well?  I am still going 24 until the last possible moment so any final processing can benefit from the extra depth.

When I get 24bit files that is.....
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Adam Gonsalves
Telegraph Mastering

Matt_G

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2011, 02:33:01 am »

Dirty, low down, rotten, shameless nerds.  Good way to be.  :D
So Matt, are you catching at 16-bit as well?  I am still going 24 until the last possible moment so any final processing can benefit from the extra depth.

When I get 24bit files that is.....

Yeah still capturing at 24bit but auditioning through a limiter with 16bit dither. This doesn't effect the recorded file which is still 24bit & not processed by the plug-in until you export it. You're right in that it's best to capture at 24bit so you can do all fades at the higher bit rate before dithering/exporting the final product to 16bit.
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Laarsų

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2011, 07:24:42 am »

...it's best to capture at 24bit so you can do all fades at the higher bit rate before dithering/exporting the final product to 16bit.

We capture the file at 16 bit res, since we are doing fades in Source EDL to mix file before processing.   Although Katz likes/used to like? to build album in advance using MIDI-activated process-on-Load Out, we find that all songs are going to be singles in iTunes shuffle, anyway, so, just treating each as a single and then nudging to the album sequence is sufficient, provided a known playback volume knob setting on console is repeatable for each premaster... For gaps between songs of digital black, we are 3-point editing in "room tone" in the form of analog silence.


Servų,
     Laarsų
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Laars Oglethorpe, V
Space Camp CD Premastering
Pivot dub lab vinyl products and consulting

adamgonsa

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2011, 10:59:15 am »

You can do that with WL6 by opening the ASIO plug in the top slot and setting it to external input and selecting the sample rate if you're wanting anything other than 44.1.
You then press play to monitor the audio with any plugs you want in slots 2 to 8.
Just select render to record and press stop once you've put it down.

I couldn't seem to get WL7 (mac) to do this when I tried it this morning.
Actually managed to crash it too!
I can't get it to work either.  Also caused a crash on my end; trashing the .plist didn't help.   >:(
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Adam Gonsalves
Telegraph Mastering

Table Of Tone

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2011, 11:18:48 am »

That's actually a pretty big issue with WL7 on a mac!

Many ME's will wanna audition their capture via a plug.
soundBlade can do that with no problems.
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Matt_G

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2011, 01:09:50 pm »

That's actually a pretty big issue with WL7 on a mac!

Many ME's will wanna audition their capture via a plug.
soundBlade can do that with no problems.

We're still not out of the woods with sB though, you can't render destructively through a plug-in in real-time during a capture (well not intentionally lol) & the bussing which is virtually non-existent in sB doesn't work when capturing from a physical input source through sB. All of this & heaps more routing possibilities are a cinch in ProTools. I also had a lot of trouble exporting a track from sB with 2 plug-ins on the master output. It rendered the file but wouldn't re-import/replace the old file for editing even with that option ticked (throws up some error that it couldn't find the rendered file even though it's sitting there).

Seems no one can make a decent/reliable/functional mastering app for Mac these days. They're either buggy, lacking essential features or the GUI is dated or all three. Hopefully Magix will do a good job of porting Sequoia to OSX if they get around to it some day.

It's times like this I wish I could run two instances of PT's on the same machine.
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adamgonsa

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2011, 01:21:51 pm »

That's actually a pretty big issue with WL7 on a mac!

Many ME's will wanna audition their capture via a plug.
soundBlade can do that with no problems.
I agree!  The workarounds needed to mimic this (basic) function are ridiculous. 
Quote from: Matt_G
It's times like this I wish I could run two instances of PT's on the same machine.
For real.  For me logic is perfect except it can't do assembly, and waveburner (while it's easy on the eyes and easy to use) makes me paranoid with all those well documented problems.  Plus it can't catch (no record/input dialog). 

I dunno...anyone ever tried wave editor?
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Adam Gonsalves
Telegraph Mastering

Matt_G

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2011, 01:24:32 pm »

We capture the file at 16 bit res, since we are doing fades in Source EDL to mix file before processing. 

I still have some reservations about this approach, firstly if the client decides they don't like the fade & you've rendered it pre-processing it could mean a recall (not so bad if you're all ITB processing). Secondly, you'll still have audible analog noise floor over the lowest level parts of a fade whereas fading down the tail post-processing means the noise floor goes down with it. Lastly, if you've faded pre-processing (comp/limiter) the fades can sometimes sound a bit weird as they're often way more dynamic compared to the point just before the fade out (depends on what's needed of course). 

Doing the fade post processing eliminates all these issues. Not sure about you but most of the EP's & albums I work on are still going to CD as well as being digitally released. So I'd much rather have the fades left till last so I can tweak them for the ideal transitions in the destination EDL for the CD release.  It's still easy enough to export out individually faded tracks for the iTunes release after it's all done.

As for "analog silence" I only add noise between tracks when a client requests it, some even ask for good old fashioned tape hiss or vinyl crackle, other times there is transitions built into the tracks for crossfade edits. 
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Matt_G

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Re: Pitch/Catch
« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2011, 01:32:41 pm »

I agree!  The workarounds needed to mimic this (basic) function are ridiculous.  For real.  For me logic is perfect except it can't do assembly, and waveburner (while it's easy on the eyes and easy to use) makes me paranoid with all those well documented problems.  Plus it can't catch (no record/input dialog). 

I dunno...anyone ever tried wave editor?

I used to use WaveBummer for years.. it's ok for assembly & with 1.6.1 I think all the 15 bit bugs are squashed (pun intended  :P) but as you say there is still no record/input functionality. I also have WaveEditor & use it daily for prepping singles for digital release. The SRC, dithering & general functions are quite good, it just feels a bit light on for features & the recording aspect, metering & assembly are bit antiquated. There is no provision to record through or audition through plug-ins either.

If ProTools had built in CD burning & proper PQ functionality I wouldn't look at anything else. The mixer routing is ridiculously good, ok the fades could be better but otherwise it's rockin' & so dependable/reliable really. I've been using it getting on 13 year now.   

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