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[Masterer]

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 20:49

Masterer wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 18:48 Hahahahaha [how do you type an evil laugh?] FYI, the correct procedure is: MUWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Thanks boys.

[turtletone]

What you are supposed to do is put a bit of distortion on everything so they don't notice that some have it. You then call the mixer and tell him you loved his mixes and hope to hear some more of his work. You tell the A&R guy that he's a genius for hiring the mixer and ultimately you.

Telling anyone but your wife that there is distortion on some of the mixes that a big named mix engineer mixed, especially to the a&r dude, is like peeing in a pool and trying to swim away from it.  

[Arf! Mastering]

This incident reminds me of an early bit of advice handed down - the less said about anything to anyone the better.

But it does point to a common trap - point out a problem to someone  who is not technical and who does not trust you implicitly, and they may very well think it is *your* problem.

Better just to cough every time the distorted part comes up.

[joeaudio]

TotalSonic wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 21:35

joeaudio wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 21:08 jazzius wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 19:58 Making famous mixer look bad to A&R guy? - bad career move - would've thought that was obvious.......Daz What would you do there Jazzius, fake a siezure ? Joe It's hard to say because we haven't heard how bad the tracks were and we weren't in the room at the time - but obviously this is one situation where extreme tact and diplomacy is about the only way a positive result might come about.  One way out is tell the A&R person that you want the contact info on the engineer to ask him a couple questions - and then excuse yourself out of the room, telling him you're stopping the clock for five minutes while you check a couple things, and make the call to the engineer without being in front of the A&R rep - as all engineers that I know HATE being made to look like the bad guy in front of anyone that provides them with work!  Once you get the engineer on the line you might want to "tart out" the news by not focusing on the fact that his mixes are distorted in places - but by instead stating thatt you think you'll get a lot better results in your own work if he can print the mixes with a bit less gain for the tracks.  It's always great to give a compliment to some area of the tracks as you're making these suggestions too so that they don't feel you're just calling with attacks.  Sometimes some schmoozing, and even subtle ass-kissing can help smooth over these kinds of moments.   I've also been provided with enormously distorted mixes and find that sometimes the client is more than ready to send unlimited or backed off mixes once they are made aware of a problem, as long as the request is put as diplomatically as possible.  But there are indeed other times you just have to deal with "pre-distorted" already slammed mixes - and sometimes I've found that making these slightly more distorted and more overly slammed is exactly what the client is looking for! Best regards, Steve Berson

Thanks for a serious response. I asked the mix engineer
for a little headroom and he nearly shit a brick.
"Every time I give you guys some room you mess
up my mix with your over-compression"
For what it's worth no-one's ever tried to cover for me
when I made a mistake. If I mess up I admit it and
do what I have to do to make it right.

Joe

[joeaudio]

AlanS wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 06:49

This incident reminds me of an early bit of advice handed down - the less said about anything to anyone the better. But it does point to a common trap - point out a problem to someone  who is not technical and who does not trust you implicitly, and they may very well think it is *your* problem. Better just to cough every time the distorted part comes up.

The A&R guy heard it for the first time while listening in
my room.
Maybe it was the first time he listened at less than 110dB SPL.
He was very thankful that I caught it.
It's the mixing engineer with the chip on his shoulder.
A&R guy loved the mastering, mixing guy shot it down
for spite. ("you messed up the harmonics on the vocals")c'mon.
A&R guy also said he loved my room and the facility and would be back.

Joe

[joeaudio]

bblackwood wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 01:49

Masterer wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 18:48 Hahahahaha [how do you type an evil laugh?] FYI, the correct procedure is: MUWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ah, now I remember why I stopped wasting my time with this board. My son wants to go in the back yard and throw
a ball around, time much better spent.
Thank you.

Joe

[Thomas W. Bethel]

I think a good people skill to develop is the one where you can tell someone that they have made a mistake without telling them that they have made a mistake.

I got in some mixes from a studio that I had never worked with before. They were problematic in that the engineer had used some 2 buss compression and some kind of effect that made the mixes just sound just plain BAD. The person who brought in the mixes said they did not sound like that when they were mixed. I called the engineer and asked him a couple of questions but could tell that he was as much in the dark about the sound I was hearing as the client who brought in the mixes. We arranged for me to go to his studio to listen to the mixes on his equipment. I went over and found a very nice studio in this engineer's basement with two large rooms very nicely done and a vocal booth and a control room that was about 6 feet deep and 29+ feet wide. The console was to the left of center about 6 feet from the left wall and one speaker was at the corner of the left wall and the other speaker was at the corner of the right wall. All this guy's monitoring equipment was Sony Elite which is good equipment but not really designed for monitoring. He also had an equalizer patched into the monitoring system with a large smiley eq on it. The device he strapped across the 2 buss was a Behringer compressor and some other piece of Behringer that was suppose to provide widening, bass enhancement and hi frequency enhancement. He played back the mixes and in that space, on the couch where he had me sit they did not sound anything like what I heard in my mastering studio. They actually sounded OK. I asked for a pair of headphones and listen to the mixes though the headphones and heard somewhat the same sound as what I had heard in my studio. I suggested that the engineer come over to my studio and listen to the mixes there. When he did he understood what the problems were and that his monitoring setup was fooling him and was making things sound "normal" when they were not. I have since gotten quite a bit of work from this engineer and he has gotten some new speakers and reset his listening setup and now is doing some very nice very transportable work.

If I had gotten him pissed off by telling him that his stuff sucked I would not have gotten a good client and he would still be producing crap but not knowing it.

FWIW

[Arf! Mastering]

joeaudio wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 07:15

AlanS wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 06:49 This incident reminds me of an early bit of advice handed down - the less said about anything to anyone the better. But it does point to a common trap - point out a problem to someone  who is not technical and who does not trust you implicitly, and they may very well think it is *your* problem. Better just to cough every time the distorted part comes up. The A&R guy heard it for the first time while listening in my room. Maybe it was the first time he listened at less than 110dB SPL. He was very thankful that I caught it. It's the mixing engineer with the chip on his shoulder. A&R guy loved the mastering, mixing guy shot it down for spite. ("you messed up the harmonics on the vocals")c'mon. A&R guy also said he loved my room and the facility and would be back. Joe

That's good news - it sounds like you came out ahead, but if it had been handled differently maybe both the mixer and the A&R guy might now be clients.   I'm not saying to overlook a problem that might cause trouble downstream, but if you find one and it is potentially embarassing to anyone on the project, the way it is handled is just as important, if not more, as fixing it.  Steve B's method is tried and true.  Mixers are rock stars and the often heard "not letting any ME f**k with my mix" meaning they compress it to the max themselves is becomming a common myth.   I recently demo'd a comparison for an engineer of his "max'd" version done with plugs to his full-range version through a Weiss DS1.  He heard right away that the plugged compression was very hard to listen to next to the Weiss - from there on he brought in clean mixes and only gave the clients the slammed ones for their cars.

[MoreSpaceEcho]

joeaudio wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:26

Ah, now I remember why I stopped wasting my time with this board.

i know, it's really a drag here. all these people with a sense of humor are SO ANNOYING.

*stomps out of room*

[stevieeastend]

TurtleTone wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 02:24

What you are supposed to do is put a bit of distortion on everything so they don't notice that some have it. You then call the mixer and tell him you loved his mixes and hope to hear some more of his work. You tell the A&R guy that he's a genius for hiring the mixer and ultimately you.

I am not convinced that this is the right thing in the long run....  As long as you know what you are doing, know what you are talking about there is nothing wrong to stick to your opinion. Theres a serious chance for studios to survive A&Rs...

cheers
steveeastend

[turtletone]

steveeastend wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 16:34

TurtleTone wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 02:24 What you are supposed to do is put a bit of distortion on everything so they don't notice that some have it. You then call the mixer and tell him you loved his mixes and hope to hear some more of his work. You tell the A&R guy that he's a genius for hiring the mixer and ultimately you. I am not convinced that this is the right thing in the long run....  As long as you know what you are doing, know what you are talking about there is nothing wrong to stick to your opinion. Theres a serious chance for studios to survive A&Rs... cheers steveeastend

Kind of a tongue in cheeky post. Hark hark.

[Andy Krehm]

MoreSpaceEcho wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 10:34

joeaudio wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 12:26 Ah, now I remember why I stopped wasting my time with this board. i know, it's really a drag here. all these people with a sense of humor are SO ANNOYING. *stomps out of room*

Dear MoreSpaceEcho:

I can certainly appreciate the sentiment behind your sarcastic post but on the other hand, Joe is an accomplished mastering engineer with some really good credits and that is the main reason I read and participate on this board..... to  see how other accomplished mastering engineers go about their work. Gear, techniques and handling clients, it's all interesting.

So obviously Joe wears his  heart on his sleeve  and maybe could use some refinement in the way he handled the session in question but who amoungst us, at least those of us who are full-time mastering engineers, hasn't reacted strongly to a situation that was not our fault but had the potential to make us look bad and possibly screw up a new avenue of income!

Joe has more credits than most people on this board and for that reason alone, I hope he continues to participate as I find his posts interesting and informative.

Andy,

Silverbirch Productions

www.silverbirchprod.com

[Gravity 8058]

Yeah, I really hope that didn't scare you off, Joe.  Chris Athens is sarcastic (and totally hallarious) so he's just joking around.

[stevieeastend]

TurtleTone wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 23:47

steveeastend wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 16:34 TurtleTone wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 02:24 What you are supposed to do is put a bit of distortion on everything so they don't notice that some have it. You then call the mixer and tell him you loved his mixes and hope to hear some more of his work. You tell the A&R guy that he's a genius for hiring the mixer and ultimately you. I am not convinced that this is the right thing in the long run....  As long as you know what you are doing, know what you are talking about there is nothing wrong to stick to your opinion. Theres a serious chance for studios to survive A&Rs... cheers steveeastend Kind of a tongue in cheeky post. Hark hark.

Yeah! But I meant this more generally.... Is it better to be straight forward or diplomatic? I wonder how others would deal with not so good mixes of somebody famous...

cheers
st.

[turtletone]

steveeastend wrote on Sun, 16 July 2006 04:00

TurtleTone wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 23:47 steveeastend wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 16:34 TurtleTone wrote on Sat, 15 July 2006 02:24 What you are supposed to do is put a bit of distortion on everything so they don't notice that some have it. You then call the mixer and tell him you loved his mixes and hope to hear some more of his work. You tell the A&R guy that he's a genius for hiring the mixer and ultimately you. I am not convinced that this is the right thing in the long run....  As long as you know what you are doing, know what you are talking about there is nothing wrong to stick to your opinion. Theres a serious chance for studios to survive A&Rs... cheers steveeastend Kind of a tongue in cheeky post. Hark hark. Yeah! But I meant this more generally.... Is it better to be straight forward or diplomatic? I wonder how others would deal with not so good mixes of somebody famous... cheers st.

If he is a well established mixer, then I would approach it from a standpoint of this is what he wanted or someone in the chain wanted it. If it seems out of place, then I would most certainly give the engineer a call and just say, "hi, i'm just going over the mixes and I noticed a bit of distortion in a couple of places and I just wanted to make sure it was intentional and not a transfer or copy problem". This way it addresses the issue without pointing the finger. it leaves him an out. I get several mixes from bigger engineers that don't even print the mixes themselves. They get the mix to where they want it and go home to leave their assistant to print the mixes. Stuff happens.

I learned my lesson a long time ago to never discuss problems through the record company. first, they have a higher turnover rate than Mcdonalds. Second, I don't want my sessions to seem problematic. All my problems get delt with behind the scenes so at the end of the day, i've built a trust with the engineer and the label sees a session that is running smoothly with no problems.