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Author Topic: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here  (Read 11723 times)

ATOR

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2006, 09:40:25 AM »

This is what I did:

PLParEQ
Freq - Q - gain
48.4 - .5 - 4.1
170 - .3 - -3.6
1000 - .87 - -2.4
1995 - 1.05 - 2.5
2000 - shelf - 3.6

UAD Pulltec Pro

Freq - Gain
60 - +5 and -3
500 - +3
3k - +5
8k - +5

TransX wide

Range   4.7   
Sense   6.4
Dur   4.98   
Release   10.2

Sonalksis SV-315 (x2 in MS)
Thres   -4.1  (-5.0 on S channel)
Ratio   3.2   
Knee   1.0   
Attk   50   
Rel   262

SIR
small ambience

UAD Prec Lim
rel 33ms
mode B

UV22HR dither

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Pieter Vincenten - ATORmastering

ATOR

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2006, 09:49:13 AM »

I think NoWo does make a point. I compare the masters at equal level and that's a disadvantage for the guys who made the louder ones. Maybe it's a good idea to set a RMS target for the next WUMP so we have a more real-life scenario of getting it to sound good a a specific level. Something like: the max level of the track has to be -10dB RMS.
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Pieter Vincenten - ATORmastering

ericjenson

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2006, 10:41:50 AM »

excuse me for one moment please, i feel very disrespected on this forum and I know I  have brought up a valid point,


the ringing at 18k, whether you hear it or not, is an issue, and a serious one

nevermind the joKes about my mastering being too "bright"


who of you? dare I ask?, ever mentionmed the ringing? , when it could have been plainly seen if not heard by imperfect ears?
through a very basic fft analyzer?

who of you, was even paying attention to basic mastering skills and actually listened , analyzed the piece entirely before designing your approach?

when this very basic of troublesome noise has gone completely unaddressed, accept at the expence of my ridicule for merely mentionoing it?


I used to be a proud member of this forum , and thought we could learn something from one another

but as i see it now, there is way too much growing up to do and I feel as tho the only acceptable thing to do is to bow out and let all of you wannabe ungrateful mastering engineers figure this basiuc *&#t out for yourselves

good luck to you and yours, because i'm good enough to where I don't need it


I am a GODDAMN! GOOD! Mastering Engineer! World Fucking Class!
and i don't care if my name isn't bob katz or ludwig, because for all you know i could be katz or ludwig, bringing up an issue that needs serious attention, but it doesn't mean as much coming from just another forum member now , does it



no wonder the "so called" greats, the TRULY REAL GREATS, choose their students wisely,

because from a pack of you, not one would be worthy!!!!!!


Who wants to really learn something!

If this is the purpose of your WUMPS, then *&#k your GODDAMN WUMPS! AND the lot of you with it,you aren't learning shit in this way!


I would like to know , from anyone who really cares, whether it's worth it to you to show you exactly how i came up with my processes

i am here to share knowledge, you lugs!
not to be burned at the stake for pointing out something EVERYGODDAMNONEOFYOU Missed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I deserve an apology!

Respect me as i have tried the utmost to respect you in these extreme conditions!
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Eric Jenson
Mastering Engineer
Acoustics Engineering Apprentice

MoreSpaceEcho

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2006, 11:26:39 AM »

wow.
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HansP

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2006, 11:38:46 AM »

man man we are a dozen desperados in a forum of >13000!
please don't let this destroy your fun.
it just happens that a few people have a different perception and do their work in a different way. the rest is a cultural thing..

I saw a spike at 38k and 'something' at 19 (rough guess).
first in the processing I put a soft rolloff starting from 15k and then dropped everything above 20k (at 96k SR).

except the treble you have only plus signs in my review.
peace & respect
hans
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bblackwood

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2006, 01:17:47 PM »

ericjenson wrote on Sat, 08 July 2006 09:41

excuse me for one moment please, i feel very disrespected on this forum and I know I  have brought up a valid point,


the ringing at 18k, whether you hear it or not, is an issue, and a serious one

nevermind the joKes about my mastering being too "bright"


who of you? dare I ask?, ever mentionmed the ringing? , when it could have been plainly seen if not heard by imperfect ears?
through a very basic fft analyzer?

who of you, was even paying attention to basic mastering skills and actually listened , analyzed the piece entirely before designing your approach?

when this very basic of troublesome noise has gone completely unaddressed, accept at the expence of my ridicule for merely mentionoing it?


I used to be a proud member of this forum , and thought we could learn something from one another

but as i see it now, there is way too much growing up to do and I feel as tho the only acceptable thing to do is to bow out and let all of you wannabe ungrateful mastering engineers figure this basiuc *&#t out for yourselves

good luck to you and yours, because i'm good enough to where I don't need it


I am a GODDAMN! GOOD! Mastering Engineer! World Fucking Class!
and i don't care if my name isn't bob katz or ludwig, because for all you know i could be katz or ludwig, bringing up an issue that needs serious attention, but it doesn't mean as much coming from just another forum member now , does it



no wonder the "so called" greats, the TRULY REAL GREATS, choose their students wisely,

because from a pack of you, not one would be worthy!!!!!!


Who wants to really learn something!

If this is the purpose of your WUMPS, then *&#k your GODDAMN WUMPS! AND the lot of you with it,you aren't learning shit in this way!


I would like to know , from anyone who really cares, whether it's worth it to you to show you exactly how i came up with my processes

i am here to share knowledge, you lugs!
not to be burned at the stake for pointing out something EVERYGODDAMNONEOFYOU Missed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




I deserve an apology!

Respect me as i have tried the utmost to respect you in these extreme conditions!


Dude, you need to chill.

If you're this thin-skinned and desperate for 'respect', you may want to consider:
1] whether or not posting on an internet forum is the best thing for you, and
2] whether or not this industry is a good fit for you.

This forum is comprised of mastering engineers covering the spectrum - from beginner to highly experienced. Do us all a favor and get over yourself.
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

Patrik T

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2006, 01:39:23 PM »

OK. What the fuck?

ericjenson wrote on Sat, 08 July 2006 15:41

excuse me for one moment please, i feel very disrespected on this forum and I know I  have brought up a valid point,


the ringing at 18k, whether you hear it or not, is an issue, and a serious one

nevermind the joKes about my mastering being too "bright"


Shall I go your way and start off a living hell because most people find my take to be kick-heavy? No sir, I am not that sensitive. You can not ALLOW yourself to be sensitive if you post something that is supposed to be analyzed.

People are by the way NOT joking about your master being bright. If the majority of feed-backers, until now, has indicated it is bright, then it IS bright.

Quote:

who of you? dare I ask?, ever mentionmed the ringing? , when it could have been plainly seen if not heard by imperfect ears?
through a very basic fft analyzer?


Most people here decide their actions upon hearing and not FFT's. I guess most of us do have extremely imperfect and bad hearing and maybe we all should just die because of that?

Quote:

who of you, was even paying attention to basic mastering skills and actually listened , analyzed the piece entirely before designing your approach?


I think most did listen to it. I guess fewer had to run it thorugh different FFT's and anlyzers in order to find out that it was a mix that had its own limitations regarding how much that could be done to it before it would fall apart completely.

Quote:

when this very basic of troublesome noise has gone completely unaddressed, accept at the expence of my ridicule for merely mentionoing it?


18 kHz. Troublesome? The source was dumped through an D/A onto a Studer and then that Studer played back and was recorded back into an A/D. You can expect that noise is added when something is baked onto tape.

And, most improtantly, you can create a living hell of troubles below those 18 kHz if the FFT decides what to do. Those 18 kHz can have close relationships to things WAY below 18 kHz. Is that big news?


Quote:

I used to be a proud member of this forum , and thought we could learn something from one another

but as i see it now, there is way too much growing up to do and I feel as tho the only acceptable thing to do is to bow out and let all of you wannabe ungrateful mastering engineers figure this basiuc *&#t out for yourselves

good luck to you and yours, because i'm good enough to where I don't need it


Being overly sensitive in the context of WUMP or in the context of mastering or audio engineering in general won't lead anywhere. Most of us ARE grown up.

You seem overly childish though when you imply that you are better than anyone here. Do you seriously imply that if you leave this ship we'll all be lost? Have you got any clue what each and everyone actually have accomplished, is doing or have done OUTSIDE of WUMP? No you don't, and you should reconsider what you are throwing on everyone here with those general statements.


Quote:

I am a GODDAMN! GOOD! Mastering Engineer! World Fucking Class!


Do you speak like that to your clients if they request any changes?

Quote:

and i don't care if my name isn't bob katz or ludwig, because for all you know i could be katz or ludwig, bringing up an issue that needs serious attention, but it doesn't mean as much coming from just another forum member now , does it


I doubt that Bob Katz would set of a living hell about a spike at 18 kHz, and I doubt he would tell people they had not been paying attention by NOT using FFT's, analyzers and graphs. Fact is, he would never act this unprofessional.


Quote:

no wonder the "so called" greats, the TRULY REAL GREATS, choose their students wisely,

because from a pack of you, not one would be worthy!!!!!!


Wow! Are you by any chance Ludwigs latest proteg
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chrisj

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2006, 01:54:26 PM »

No ringing or spike on the 96K master as seen in an Amadeus sonogram (basic FFT analysis)

No ringing or spike on the 44.1K SRC I did with 'Audacity' and virtual analog resampling, 'medium' setting.

I don't get it... and about half the time I was considered too bright myself, so I figure it's not from dull murkiness Wink

Since a lot of people asked, yes, I'm on the Lavry Black now Very Happy damn, am I enjoying it. I am also on Channel Islands D100 amplifiers driven directly by the Lavry- same speakers as always. I'm quickly getting used to the very new sound, which is a hell of a lot bigger and clearer. Yes, the amplifiers are unusual but they are working well for my speakers, which are big horn designs and need a smaller amp.

As for the RMS level matching stuff- here's the deal. Even if I want to do superhot levels, I'm going to want it level matched, so I can have much-needed help hearing how the tone actually differs. I need to have a reference for how much the snare really sticks out before I smash it, so I'll more clearly understand what's happening to it. It's a LOT easier for me to hear that sort of thing if I'm hearing the sound actually go splat and fail to express itself as loudly as the source.

Put it this way. I'm still running the same code with which I was going SIX db over everybody else at the time. There isn't really much of a theoretical limit as to how hot I can go. I can master hotter than clipping and do, when the peak algorithms kick in. Under the circumstances, I cannot compare source with master without level matching because the master is so ridiculously hotter than the source. Literally cannot compare... I'll have the Lavry on '1' and it's still not attenuated enough to handle the master without blowing me against the wall.

If you are doing superhot stuff you need RMS level matching for reference so you can hear what changed, at all, because your master's gonna be a whole other order of magnitude from the source by definition. It's not even like you're doing little subtle changes. If you have any desire to retain the character of the music while also smashing it to the moon you can only use level matching or just have a really good memory, I guess.

I suck in my own special way and part of that is that I do NOT have that good a memory. I'm not going to be able to reference a mastered track to the original in my head, so I have to do something to assist myself so my work is better. That's what I did this time around- put down the experimentation a bit and just did a normal job- and it worked out okay, and I learned a lot, especially about how loud smashed stuff can be. If I were to do it over, and I've done 'revisions' just to test how much I learned, I'd be going hotter, but it still would not be as hot as some entries because I thought they went too far, even for uberhot stuff.

Eric, I am hoping you weren't especially insulted by my review, since I actively tried to not make it a catalog of complaints. I do have to say, however, that I think I'm learning a lot more, and getting a lot better, through taking my chances, accepting people's sometimes aggressive complaints, believing them, and changing my ways when I find the complaints are valid. It looks like you're getting mad instead. Getting mad is OK, I hate being criticized too, but sometimes it's not subjective. I could pretty easily document that you're coming in a hell of a lot brighter than, say, certain recent Sterling output. There's a reason the real A-list guys don't invariably go uber-bright: it's distracting and hurts the ear and detracts from other things that need to be happening with the music.

It is a way to get really loud, but the A-list guys are more likely to get really loud in such a way that there's an illusion of the original track there, just expanded and clarified until everything's really big. Excessive treble boost comes across like a new, added element, something bolted onto the mix in the same way that Norbert's housey PA-sounding mastering made it sound like totally new bass was there.

I see that as mixing. I'd rather con you into thinking that my mastering is exactly like the original mix only, you know, everything works better Very Happy I don't want there to be any elements that sound like I added them, even if I did.

And THAT is why I have taken to comparing RMS level matched, even though I'm not trying to get the levels to be anything like the same Smile

cerberus

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2006, 04:06:04 PM »

chrisj wrote on Fri, 07 July 2006 20:23

some people's files (notably Patrik's) give it problems as Patrik's WAVs seem to not have a data block marker in the place the program expects it to be.
i think patrik's kick drum may have knocked that data block into low earth orbit!
Quote:

I had a similar problem with UnderTow's, but then it went away. WTF???
there is  a window focus issue; perhaps an osx/finder bug to be worked around: the source file window [finder] must be in active focus or drag and drop won't work here. it can also cause both finder and matchbox u.i.s to freeze for a few seconds, but it recovers. seems stable.


jeff dinces

Patrik T

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2006, 04:28:53 PM »

cerberus wrote on Sat, 08 July 2006 21:06

chrisj wrote on Fri, 07 July 2006 20:23

some people's files (notably Patrik's) give it problems as Patrik's WAVs seem to not have a data block marker in the place the program expects it to be.
i think patrik's kick drum may have knocked that data block into low earth orbit!
jeff dinces



In that case, the kick drum must have knocked it out from any reasonable gravitation zone. The data block markers are probably sliding through dead space towards Mercury by now.

Chris - do you have any of my former submissions on your complex system of hard drives, and if you have, does those also have this data block trouble showing up on your system?

Best Regards
Patrik

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chrisj

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2006, 05:29:34 PM »

I had your Roundup and DJ Teach Me. Same deal, although Roundup seems to not stall, but it's not scanning either. These will still load in other audio programs- at least the ones I have- but my wav reading code isn't making sense of them.

What program is writing them? It looks like the problem is on my end, because my wav reading code is expecting something that's not present. I'd like to know how to fix it.

UnderTow

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2006, 07:44:13 PM »

chrisj wrote on Sat, 08 July 2006 01:23

 and some people's files (notably Patrik's) give it problems as Patrik's WAVs seem to not have a data block marker in the place the program expects it to be. I had a similar problem with UnderTow's, but then it went away. WTF???



If the problem shows up again with any of my files, give me a shout and I'll check what it was written with. The last one was written with R8brain I think but I might have edited the tops and tails in Sound Forge ... Smile

Alistair
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chrisj

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2006, 08:08:41 PM »

R8Brain is what Patrik was using too, I think. I'm not able to find anything anywhere suggesting that R8Brain is at fault, so I think there must be some detail in the WAV format that I'm missing- such as a rule that says 'if there isn't a data chunk, just start reading samples right away' or something.

Not a big problem as my program is not real important anyway and I can work around by opening a file in 'Amadeus' and resaving it as AIFF and scanning that Smile

ggidluck

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2006, 09:55:47 PM »

Excuse me for jumping in here. I just took a look and Patrik's file has a "pad " chunk after the "fmt" chunk and before the data.

This is allowed for in the wave specification. I'm not familiar with what applications do this though.

Gordon Gidluck
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Gordon Gidluck
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chrisj

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Re: WUMPV - Post Your Techniques Here
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2006, 01:34:21 AM »

Why, thank you! Smile
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