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[cerberus]

UnderTow wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 17:41

The idea is that instead of removing peaks in the time domain, you remove them in the frequency domain. That means you can turn up the gain without hitting the limiter (or clipping ADs) any harder (or at all).

ahh!..that does make sense.  seems to be the same idea as multi-band peak limiting.

jeff dinces

[MT Groove]

My objective was to retain the overall original mix cause I liked the way it sounded.  I did however wanted to lower the side instruments a bit (organ and sax etc.) and bring out the center drums in the process.  Then just bring up the overall level but not smash it.

TC Electronic MD3

Input Mode:  M/S Unlinked
Output Mode:  M/S Decode

M Channel EQ
+2.0 @ 80 Hz Shelve 9dB/oct
+1.3 @ 11.20 kHz Shelve 6db/oct

S Channel EQ
-2.0 @ 2.57 kHz 1.00 oct
+1.0 @ 22.30 kHz shelve: 3 dB/oct

Multiband Compressor Crossover: 160 Hz; 3.15 kHz
Crest: RMS
Autogain: Off

M Channel

Lo     Thres:  -8.0; Ratio: 2.00:1; Att: 20 ms; rel:  50 ms; Gain: 3.0
Mid    Thres: -8.0; Ratio: 2.00:1;Att: 20 ms; rel:  50 ms; Gain: 3.0
Hi     Thres:  -8.0; Ratio: 2.00:1;Att: 20 ms; rel  50 ms; Gain: 3.0

S Channel

Lo     Thres:  -15.5; Ratio: 2.00:1; Att: 20 ms; rel:  50 ms; Gain: 2.0
Mid    Thres: -15.5; Ratio: 2.00:1;Att: 20 ms; rel:  50 ms; Gain: 2.0
Hi     Thres:  -15.5; Ratio: 2.00:1;Att: 20 ms; rel  50 ms; Gain: 2.0

Limiter/Expander Bypassed


Sony Oxford Inflator


Input 0.0
Effect 100%
Curve 25.7
Output 0.0
Split Band: On


TC Electronic Brickwall Limiter

Threshold: 0.0
Upsample Mode
Auto Release
Link: On
0.0 dB

The file was processed in TC Spark XL.  I imported it into Samplitude Pro to do the fadeout and Dithering (Pow-r 1)

[mbruce333]

Here are my settings, for the NSEQ-2, I'm going off of memory, so I'll do the best I can.

I started to play with this tune, liked where it was going, and then the Tenor Sax solo came in, too harsh for me.  So I opened up the file in Sound Forge 8, used one band of a Waves C4, X-ove points at 1900hz and 3900hz, to tame the solo a bit.  I only used the C4 on  the solo section, none of the rest of the tune.  Then back to my usual set-up...

Source file at 44.1 from Wavelab 6 external gear plug in.

D/A from Crane Song HEDD.

Manley Vari Mu:  Med Attack, Med-Slow Release, 3-4db of GR in the shout chorus.

NSEQ-2,  -3db, narrow Q around 200hz
        -2db, narrow Q around 2k
        +1db, shelf at 21K

HEDD A/D  Triode=3, no Pentode, Tape=5

Back in WL6, voxengo Elephant2, In=+2 and Out=-.3
            UV22 dither and that's it!

I wanted to keep the chain pretty simple, I don't think that a Big Band tune is the place to really go for creativity.  There is already a lot going on musically, huge dynamic range, texture/voice changes alrady happening in the tune that keep it interesting so I saw it as my job to not get in the way and just try and let the music shine.  Part of letting the music through is not over compressing, IMHO.  Big Band is so dynamic, that's what makes the music swing!  As a drummer, playing big band is one of my favorites.  You can go from a whisper to a roar in a measure flat!  I think that it's essential to try and keep that dynamic life as much as possible.  Alright, enough babbling!

I did find the couple of glitches distracting, so a little sample editing in SF8, and it was much better.  Also, there was a snare note in the middle of a fill that was pretty clipped around 1:17 that also needed a little help; much better without the extra "digital snap!"

Overall, I really dug the tune and can't wait to dig into the other versions...now if I can make the time!

For now...
Mike Bruce

[ATOR]

I pencilled out the glitches just after 3min, for me this was an unwanted sound. Two weeks ago I had a mix with crackles in it and  when I called the mix engineer the crackles turned out to be wanted artifacts of the basssynth. I once denoised and decrackled a mix where the artist had put a lot of effort in it to get an old vinyl sound, so now I just make sure it's not intended

I did go way over the top with the reverb, it was the sound I remembered from when I played in a bigband. The sound of standing in the middle of a lot of horns playing in an acousticly live club. Now I turned the reverb down 10dB it sounds more like a master.

Waves LinEQ
+1.8at43Hz Q 0.89
-3.0at126Hz Q 3.0
-2.7at258 Q6.5
-1.3at516 Q6.5
-1.0at1033Hz Q 1.68

Waves TransX multi
low < 111Hz
Range 7.5
Sens 10
dur 56
rel 120

UAD Pultec pro (markings aren’t dB's)
+4 and -4 at 60Hz
+6 700Hz
+3 4kHz
+2 16kHz broad

Waves Doubler
Ambience Delays of  21, 23.7 and 30ms

SIR
Drum ambience 0.5 sec, lowcut 100Hz, -4dB @400  and highshelf 6kHz -4dB
S1 on output reverb: width 3.00

PSP mastercomp
Ratio 1.4
Atk 100ms
Rel 200ms
Sidechain low 71Hz
Link 75
Soft knee
RMS

UAD prec limiter
GR 2dB
Rel 25ms
Mode A

[cerberus]

ATOR wrote on Tue, 20 June 2006 07:32

I did go way over the top with the reverb, it was the sound I remembered from when I played in a bigband. The sound of standing in the middle of a lot of horns playing in an acousticly live club. Now I turned the reverb down 10dB it sounds more like a master.

hi pieter;

i think it's great that you can stick to your vision which was unique here.

i don't have much experience with reverb in mastering. your approach is interesting to me. i see a half second delay,..seems like a lot of delay to me.   did you cut early reflections? or does the preset lack them?

it looks like the trans-x is acting to expand some of the original ambience downward as well:  very high sensitivity, 75%  of possible range [strength of the effect], and a longish duration and release time [imo, for mastering].

jeff dinces

[Luke Fellingham]

This one was a bit of an experiment for me, mainly because I wanted to test out a compressor I've been building (SSL Clone).
A lot of my gear is packed down since doing this so I don't have access to all the exact settings. If anyone's desperate for more detail then ask me in a week or so, but I think I can provide enough info from memory to show how I approached this.

First I used a Sony Oxford eq as an HPF probably set between 25 and 30Hz.

Sonalksis multiband compressor - this plugin works a bit diferently from most multiband stuff and in a lot of ways acts more like a dynamic eq.
For me there were some kick drum hits which were just too loud compared with the others so I put an HPF set to about 80Hz onto this plugin's sidechain. I then set up a bell centered about 75 Hz medium q to give maybe a couple of dB reduction on some of the louder kick hits.

DA lavry black

SSL clone compressor - this is not yet finished and has no markings so it's hard to say what the settings were. I think I had a medium attack and release and was probably getting about 3dB reduction on the peaks.
This is more compression than I would normally use but I really was just experimenting to see what would happen. If I do that much reduction with the compressor in my Avalon 747 I really don't like it. I do think however that even when there is no reduction happening, that the SSL clone has a harder less open sound than the Avalon.

Gyratec G14 -
35 Hz +2.5dB Low q
180 Hz -1.5dB High q
500 Hz +1dB Low q
6.3 KHz +1dB low q
14 KHz +1dB low q

Apogee AD - I think I made a bit of a technical slip up here. After doing this and fortunately before doing any real work I noticed that I had UV22HR turned on. So I guess my capture was only at 16 bits. I had also wondered at the time if my analogue loop was a touch noisier than usual, I guess this could have been the reason.

Sony Oxford eq - I used this to notch out a couple of bass/ low mid frequencies, I can't remember what they were off hand.

At this point I split the signal. I left one version clean and the other I attenuated by about 18dB, delayed by 30msec and swapped left and right. The clean and delayed signals were then mixed back together. This is pretty subtle but I felt it helped the ambience just touch.

UAD Precision limiter - Again I can't remember exactly how this is set but it was probably set for about 1.5dB of limiting.

Sony Oxford Inflator - Curve 0, Effect 100.

Pow-r 2 dithering.

[cerberus]

i don't understand my own chain fully without being able to explain this:


[my stats from 2 wumps]

i used straight mbit+ dither on the entire signal as the last step and absolutely nothing after that...could anyone explain it please? i don't understand what i did here.

jeff dinces

[Pingu]

was dj teachme digitally black at the start or the beginning.

[ATOR]

cerberus wrote on Tue, 20 June 2006 18:49

ATOR wrote on Tue, 20 June 2006 07:32 I did go way over the top with the reverb, it was the sound I remembered from when I played in a bigband. The sound of standing in the middle of a lot of horns playing in an acousticly live club. Now I turned the reverb down 10dB it sounds more like a master. hi pieter; i think it's great that you can stick to your vision which was unique here. i don't have much experience with reverb in mastering. your approach is interesting to me. i see a half second delay,..seems like a lot of delay to me.   did you cut early reflections? or does the preset lack them? it looks like the trans-x is acting to expand some of the original ambience downward as well:  very high sensitivity, 75%  of possible range [strength of the effect], and a longish duration and release time [imo, for mastering]. jeff dinces

I used a reverbtime of half a second, SIR is a freeware convolution reverb. The delays were all under 30ms. I used separate delays to be able to turn op the early reflections without having a loud reverb tail.

The main fuction of the trans-X was to amplify the kick, it was the multiband version and works only under 111Hz. I just gotta have a beefy kick, it's one of the necessitties of life.

[Pingu]

ATOR wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 22:38

cerberus wrote on Tue, 20 June 2006 18:49 ATOR wrote on Tue, 20 June 2006 07:32 I did go way over the top with the reverb, it was the sound I remembered from when I played in a bigband. The sound of standing in the middle of a lot of horns playing in an acousticly live club. Now I turned the reverb down 10dB it sounds more like a master. hi pieter; i think it's great that you can stick to your vision which was unique here. i don't have much experience with reverb in mastering. your approach is interesting to me. i see a half second delay,..seems like a lot of delay to me.   did you cut early reflections? or does the preset lack them? it looks like the trans-x is acting to expand some of the original ambience downward as well:  very high sensitivity, 75%  of possible range [strength of the effect], and a longish duration and release time [imo, for mastering]. jeff dinces I used a reverbtime of half a second, SIR is a freeware convolution reverb. The delays were all under 30ms. I used separate delays to be able to turn op the early reflections without having a loud reverb tail. The main fuction of the trans-X was to amplify the kick, it was the multiband version and works only under 111Hz. I just gotta have a beefy kick, it's one of the necessitties of life.

Hi ATOR.

How are the crossovers on the tranx x multi.


I agree with you on the kick.


Have you tried the voxengo transmodder.

[ATOR]

Pingu wrote

Hi ATOR. How are the crossovers on the tranx x multi. I agree with you on the kick. Have you tried the voxengo transmodder.

I don't hear anything in the trans-X that bothers me crossoverwise, so for me they're good.
The transmodder didn't do it for me, I found it too complex and it didn't convince me soundwise.

[Patrik T]

ATOR wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 17:34

The transmodder didn't do it for me, I found it too complex and it didn't convince me soundwise.

The good thing with many of the Voxengo thingies is that if you WISH you could do something they allow you to do that. Hence many parameters. There's no room for compromises due to easy operation. Thanks god for that!

That's why they are complex, sometimes heavy on the CPU, underrated and maybe misunderstood.

Aleksey Vaneev is a genious.

Best regards
Patrik

[Pingu]

Patrik T wrote on Fri, 23 June 2006 01:23

ATOR wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 17:34 The transmodder didn't do it for me, I found it too complex and it didn't convince me soundwise. The good thing with many of the Voxengo thingies is that if you WISH you could do something they allow you to do that. Hence many parameters. There's no room for compromises due to easy operation. Thanks god for that! That's why they are complex, sometimes heavy on the CPU, underrated and maybe misunderstood. Aleksey Vaneev is a genious. Best regards Patrik

I agree with you on that.



I feel personally that the transmodder would be more adequate and sonically superior than waves but the trans x wide takes me 3 mins to set well and at the moment i don't know where to start with the transmodder.
I'm going to have to experiment with it on past tracks.



Any tips on how to set it up?

[cerberus]

Pingu wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 09:36

was dj teachme digitally black at the start or the beginning.

every single sample was dithered to 16 bits; the only process  after that is re-naming the file.

jeff dinces

[Ged Leitch]

Pingu wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 18:28

Patrik T wrote on Fri, 23 June 2006 01:23 ATOR wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 17:34 The transmodder didn't do it for me, I found it too complex and it didn't convince me soundwise. The good thing with many of the Voxengo thingies is that if you WISH you could do something they allow you to do that. Hence many parameters. There's no room for compromises due to easy operation. Thanks god for that! That's why they are complex, sometimes heavy on the CPU, underrated and maybe misunderstood. Aleksey Vaneev is a genious. Best regards Patrik I agree with you on that. I feel personally that the transmodder would be more adequate and sonically superior than waves but the trans x wide takes me 3 mins to set well and at the moment i don't know where to start with the transmodder. I'm going to have to experiment with it on past tracks. Any tips on how to set it up?

Say you got a bass drum thats too impacting for example...

pick bandpass on the top analyzer>
and directly below pick TA 1>
click *link* on.>
Tune in on the freq using the bottom freq selector.>

go to the top part a adjust the attack to about 20ms.>

now use the range setting to *Decrease the impact* increase range to amplify it (But in this case you wont)

Release to around 100ms or higher.

Now all you got to do is adjust how wide the band is your reducing in impact.i.e bandwith control.

Scale i think of as ratio (but its not) so increase scale to increase the Softening of the bass drum (or range)
tune the sensitivity so thats its only acting on the kick most of the time.

Oh and hit *Overlap* to hear if you have low freq distorion, if you dont, there should be a simple beep in time with the kick.

You'll hear the beep distort if the time setting is too fast.

Hope that helps mate.