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Author Topic: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...  (Read 10431 times)

Ged Leitch

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WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« on: June 18, 2006, 07:50:14 PM »

I'm gonna start off guys...

since it's late here and will post comments after a thorough listening session tommorow, been at wedding all weekend and it's hangover city here!.

The mix > well, great mix! all i wanted to do was go for a warm sound but keep it natural and not processed sounding.

Voxengo Warmifier

Valve type - 6550
Mode   1
Prm V  -4Db
Prm I  -5Db
Eq off
Flt off
High quality > ON.

This little plug if used sparingly just sounds plain good.
Whether or not its a faithful emu of the valve sound doesnt
matter to me, what does though is that it made the mix sound
less brittle and coloured the sound in a good way IMO.


Refined Audiometrics PLPar EQ


running in M/S mode > minimum phase>

M channel>>>

Hi Pass @ 20Hz

+6Db @40Hz  Q 0.5
-3Db @95Hz  Q 2.00
+4Db @220Hz Q 0.5

...listening back, i think the Q's should have been narrower
on the boost @ 40Hz.

-1Db @1.5Khz Q 0.60
+1Db @2.5Khz Q 0.80
+2Db @20 Khz Q 0.40

S channel

+3Db @220Hz  Q 0.70
+1Db @700Hz  Q 0.50
+2Db @25Khz  Q 0.50


Trans X Wide

Range + 4
sens    6
duration 9.5
release  9.5

Tuned it in to get more action from the drums, snare etc.
just enough to hear more snap.


Voxengo Marquis Compressor

Classic Mode> T3 > Feedback > clean.
Knee 30Db
Ratio 2.00
Attack - 20ms
Release -100ms
Make up gain > 3Db

Taking almost nothing from the orig mix but a DB on the louder passages.


Waves Ren Desser

Type > Bandpass > split mode.
Range -3db
Freq  - 2.7Khz

Not that there were any vox obviously but i used this instead of more EQ or multiband compression in order to smooth out the rough edges of the brass sections.

3Db of master fader clipping in Wavelab.
Sounded much better to me than limiting.

Oh, and UV22HR Dither in Wavelab.


And thats it,
if i had to change one thing, it would be to narrow the Q of the low end M channel boost.
I would'nt add any *Air* as such but thats just my personal preference.Don't think it sounded natural.
But if this was for a customer and he/she asked for it a bit brighter i obviously would.

Cheers,
Ged.




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Matt_G

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2006, 10:25:12 PM »

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Matthew Gray Mastering

Brisbane Australia

Pingu

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2006, 04:46:53 AM »

Technique



Fisrt into har-bal and pressed intuit q twice.

Then I imported the eqd track of harbal into Samplitude.

I then put the same eqd track into 3 separate stereo tracks in Samp.
Panned  1 left -10     2 right 10      3 centre.

The fader positions of the left and right pans were -15 and  -15
The centre channel was  -4.9

On the left and right channel I had a highpass filter set to 70 hz and then after that I inserted waves doubler on each panned track with the default settings.

Then on the master section I used.

Rdesser
Freq =10981
Type = Band pass
Split
Range = -1
Threshold = -50




Req = highpass set at 30 hz



Trans x wide

Range 5
Sens 6
Duration = 297.45
Release = 153.45




PSP Mastercomp

Ratio =  4:1
Threshold =  -25
Attack =  60.1 and auto on
Release = 299 with auto on
Makeup auto
Sidechain set to 205hz
Link 80%
Mix 90%
FAT = on
Hard
Peak
Limit all on


Elephant

In = 2db
Out -  -0.1
Stereo linking = 100%
4X oversampling
Speed = slow
Type =  EL3
DC filter 10 hz Bessel



Dithering pow 3



The funny thing about these WUMPS is that i would like to take a few masters and mergre there good points into 1.

Dont know how that would be done though.



Bit of experimenting went on and i only took 45 mins.

Shouldnt have pushed the levels as hard and set the release of trans x and psp more carefully so they worked better together.
And also too much of the doubler effect.
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Patrik T

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2006, 07:36:30 AM »

Ear-observations:
Full bigband jazz. Feels a little low-resoluted (the dynamic crests are a bit muffled). Feels like sitting OVER the orchestra (probably because of the relationship between hard panned organ/piano and drum ambience/snare placement).

The panned keys feels like they are not on stage. They are rather placed sligtly behind the listener.

Furthermore some brass tones feels somewhat in distortion. Almost like some microphones are not very pleased with getting hitted by the bursts. Might be overload in mic pres, or hot recording levels though.

Decicions:
Try to narrow the field without loosing ambience and depth. Lower the position of the listener. Try to minimize the brass distortion.

Action:

1. Upsampling to 88.2 in r8brain pro. Min phase/ultra steep.


2. Two analoge rounds via LavryBlue D/A + A/D:

First analogue round:

Vintagedesign CA73 (neve 1073 clone)
Input gain @ line level = -20 dB (full throttle)
Output gain = "12 o'clock"

Eq engaged:
HP Off
L. Shelf: 220 Hz, + 1.5 dB
M. Bell: 350 Hz, + 1 dB
H. Shelf: 12 kHz, +1.5 dB

Second analogue round:

Art Levellar (Yes, a 100
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Pingu

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2006, 07:46:07 AM »

Thanks for that.
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UnderTow

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2006, 08:33:40 AM »

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UnderTow

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2006, 08:37:49 AM »

Intention: Add body to the low-end and bring out the bass and kick a bit. Add bit of ambience. Make things a bit brighter but also warmer. Increase width a touch.

I tried working at 88.2Khz but PSP MasterComp used 73% CPU on my dual Opteron DAW.  Shocked  No other plugin uses even a 1/4 of this!

New trick: After reading through the Ted Jensen thread at Gearslutz I decided to see if I could detect the frequency peaks by ear. I couldn't. Smile So after setting up the first MasterQ and the MaterComp I played the whole track with Voxengo SPAN set to infinite peak hold (16K blocks) and just read off the absolute frequency peaks and added another MasterQ and notched them out a bit. (Then I added a bit more high-end which was a mistake)

Track loaded in Sonar 5. I did some automation on the volume before the mastering chain so that the loudest peaks were a bit tamed. The curves were gentle and the gain change was minimal. -0.7 dB max.

Mastering Chain:

Perfect Space convolution reverb
On a send feeding into the mastering chain
Performance Hall - XY Close
Delay 0.242 s  (To put it behind the performance)
Output -33.5 dB


PSP MasterQ
HiPass: Fc 30Hz, Q 0.71, 24dB/oct
Low Shelf: Fc 149 Hz, Q 0.5, Gain 0.68 dB
Peak: Fc 66 Hz, Q 1.08, Gain 0.92 dB
Peak: 186 Hz, Q 1.27, Gain 0.74 dB
Peak: 6.41 Khz, Q 0.55, Gain 1.25 dB
High Shelf: Fc 15.2 Khz, Q 0.50, Gain 2.05 dB

PSP MasterComp
Ratio: 2.8
Threshold: -15.91 dB
Attack: 28.5 ms (Auto off)
Release: 100 ms (Auto off)
Link: 0%
Make-up: auto
Mix: 0%
Output: -3.02 dB
FAT on, Soft knee, RMS detect Limiter off

PSP MasterQ (New trick)
Peak: Fc 2.88 Khz, Q 8.16, Gain -2.61 dB
Peak: Fc 738 Hz, Q 8.88, Gain -5.17 dB
Peak: Fc 2.07 Khz, Q 5.71, Gain -3.61 dB
High Shelf: Fc 13.6 Khz, Q 0.50, Gain 1.08 dB (Not new trick)

Voxengo Soniformer
M/S Side mode
Gain 1.1 dB up to 3.43 Khz
Gain rising up to 2.2 dB at 20Khz

This was just to add a bit of width but I have now downloaded the free Voxengo MSED plugin so next time I would probably use this. (Obviously less flexible but more than sufficient for this simple task).

Voxengo Warmifier
6550 emulation
Param V: -10 dB
Param I: -3.1 dB
Filter and EQ Off
High Quality mode

As Ged says, this plugin sounds really good. I closed my eyes when setting the levels and after opening them I was amazed at the numbers. I nearly pulled them back a bit but decided to trust my ears and not be fooled by numbers. To do this I assigned the two parameter controls to knobs on my Virus. I think I am going to create some templates with assigned knobs. Working with eyes closed is a good thing IMO.

Voxengo Elephant
In: + 3.0 dB
Limit Mode: EL-3
Limit speed: fast
Shape: 0.02
RShape: 2 ms
St linking: off
DC filter: 8Hz, Bessel
Oversampling 4X

Waves IDR dither

No particular reason to use this dither. I just thought I would give it a try.


That's it.

Alistair
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Pingu

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2006, 09:48:17 AM »

I think i read that the FAT is not necessary at this sample rate as
that's basically what the FAT does is up sample.

Is this correct?
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UnderTow

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2006, 10:44:08 AM »

Pingu wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 14:48

I think i read that the FAT is not necessary at this sample rate as
that's basically what the FAT does is up sample.

Is this correct?


Yes the FAT button turns 2X upsampling on/off but I still think it is inefficient code causing the extremely high CPU usage. Other plugins that upsample don't have this problem. (Elephant at 4X upsampling didn't use much CPU. 4X 88.2 = 352.8 Khz at 64 bit! All the "high quality" buttons on Voxengo plugs turn 2X upsampling on)

Alistair
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Pingu

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2006, 11:08:41 AM »

Interesting to see the use of warmifier happening.

Might have to try it.
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aivoryuk

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2006, 03:25:41 PM »

This is actually my first ITB submission although i do use plugins i normally always use one piece of outboard.

my impression of the track was it was well mixed tonally but the some of the instruments seemed on top of the mix rather than part of it. Also I wantd to warm it up and make the brass less fatiguing which at the level i was going to cut i new was going to be a problem.I did this late at night so was resorted to headphones a lot.

DSP WIDNER
i used this to bring the centre information (drums, bass) more into the picture which it does nicely but one drawback is it starts to narrow the width a lil too much.
so to counteract this I used the
WAVELAB STEREO EXPANDER at 58% just to retain the stereo image a lil, i prefer this to the say waves S1
WAVES LOWBAND
high pass 21hz
96hz +2.7 medium q (when i listened the next day i knew i had done too much but didn't have time to do another one other people comments confim this. but the fact with my new dac i recognise this is a big step and can only be a good thing)
WAVES BROADBAND
1808hz -2.5 med/narrow q
6.6khz +1.5 med q
lowpass at 18khz .90 (i think if i hadn't done this it would have had that air that you were talking about Patrick T)
WAVES REN IN EXPANDER MODE
threshold -20
ratio 0.90
quickest attack ration
auto release
adjust gain so didn't use limiter of the plugin
PSP VINTAGE WARMER just for warmth no knee used
single band
drive 6db
ceiling +8db
adjusted output so not clipping
PSP MASTER Q
Eq bypassed
used in soft hard mode to get level

apogee dithered

i was quite worried about using this chain as i hadn't really done anything like this before so i was worried there might be some obvious artifacts but i haven't seen any comments that question it (yet  Smile. although what let mine down was more my eq choice at the bottom end but its no biggie

im really into expanding now i think its a great technique really glad that i got the chance to try it out






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OldSonic

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2006, 04:41:01 PM »

 First - removing click around 3.07. It looks like click, it sounds like click, I'm absolutely sure that it's not a part of the performance, so, it must be removed. Pyramix pencil was used.
 Second - stereo. Mix has a hole in center - so I panned both channels around 30% to center. Now I think that this was my first mistake - 10-15 would be enough.
  EQ (analog, Focusrite 315)
shelf 33Hz +0.3dB
Bell 330 Hz +0.6dB, wb 0.6
Shelf 22 kHz +0.6dB

Dolby 740 - low-band, 150 Hz +3 Db - to bring up low-level bass details. Hi-band - from 6 kHz, +6 db. This was my second mistake - 2 dB was enough, I think. Brass section become lifless from this.

Manley - slowest times, 1,5 dB gain reduction. May be even this is much for this kind of music, but our "client" said, that this is for radio, right?

HEDD - tape, 2.

L2 - 3dB reduction. Internal PMX dither to 16 bits. That's all.

 
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Andrey Subbotin

cerberus

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2006, 05:14:13 PM »

UnderTow wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 08:37

New trick: After reading through the Ted Jensen thread at Gearslutz I decided to see if I could detect the frequency peaks by ear. I couldn't. Smile So after setting up the first MasterQ and the MaterComp I played the whole track with Voxengo SPAN set to infinite peak hold (16K blocks) and just read off the absolute frequency peaks and added another MasterQ and notched them out a bit. (Then I added a bit more high-end which was a mistake)
i miss the point...could you elaborate on the theory behind this method?  i'm not sure what your goals were here. maybe it would help if you posted the chains for your v1 and v2 seprately?  i don't understand what i am hearing from this ted jensen trick, your two versions just don't differ in loudness, they sound different to me in a few ways.

jeff dinces

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2006, 05:41:41 PM »

cerberus wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 22:14

UnderTow wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 08:37

New trick: After reading through the Ted Jensen thread at Gearslutz I decided to see if I could detect the frequency peaks by ear. I couldn't. Smile So after setting up the first MasterQ and the MaterComp I played the whole track with Voxengo SPAN set to infinite peak hold (16K blocks) and just read off the absolute frequency peaks and added another MasterQ and notched them out a bit. (Then I added a bit more high-end which was a mistake)
i miss the point...could you elaborate on the theory behind this method?  i'm not sure what your goals were here. maybe it would help if you posted the chains for your v1 and v2 seprately?  i don't understand what i am hearing from this ted jensen trick, your two versions just don't differ in loudness, they sound different to me in a few ways.

jeff dinces



Well it isn't verry noticable for this material as it isn't supposed to be mastered LOUD. I just wanted to try it. Smile

The idea is that instead of removing peaks in the time domain, you remove them in the frequency domain. That means you can turn up the gain without hitting the limiter (or clipping ADs) any harder (or at all).

Alistair

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Trillium Sound

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Re: WUMP IV - Techniques + discussion...
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2006, 05:46:49 PM »

Ok, Here is mine:

EQ1: Weiss
78hz @ + 1.5 dB Wide Bell
4.2khz @ 1.2 dB Shelf Q=1.15

Comp1: Weiss
Bass comp - 20-270hz @ 1.5.1/ attack=40 - release=50

D/A: Apogee Rosetta

EQ2: Massive
HP= 22 hz
5.6khz @ 1 dB Wide Bell

Comp2: M=Vari-mu
Limit mode
.5 dB reduction, med attack, fast release.

A/D: Apogee Rosetta

Peak Limiter: UAD-PL
T=0.1, R=auto, Out=0.1
Just catching few overs @ + or - .05 dB.

Dither: POWr 2

That's about it,
Cheers !
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