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Author Topic: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?  (Read 2436 times)

Bill_Urick

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Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« on: June 18, 2006, 08:23:23 am »

Here's the deal: We have a seven song EP that's being handed out at shows just to have some product , even though it's not officially finished (final tracks, mixes, etc.) We see our options, after completing these seven tracks, as follows:

1) Shrink wrap and bar code the EP and move on to a completely new, full length CD.

2) Add five tunes (which are already tracked) to the EP and release a full length CD.

Any thoughts?

http://www.myspace.com/jessicacurick
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

scottoliphant

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2006, 10:41:20 am »

if you added 5 songs for a full length, would it be a cohesive whole? Or feel like 5 songs stuck with 5 other songs?

Bill_Urick

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2006, 12:24:15 pm »

We think it would be cohesive. All the tunes seem to hang together fairly well.
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

pg666

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2006, 02:34:57 pm »

don't underestimate the power of a good EP. i can't think of the last time i've listened to a full length and was hungry for much more, even if it was good. i think that's a good quality for a newer band to shoot for (assuming it is a newer band).
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j.hall

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2006, 04:38:29 pm »

techincally anything over 35 minutes (might be 30, i can't remember) is a full length.

that being said, i have to agree with pg666 with an exception.  i'm not a huge fan of EPs.  but to me an EP IS BETWEEN 3 - 6 songs and usually leaves me unsatisfied with a good picture of the band.

i don't think you can justifiably charge 10 bucks for an "EP" and that makes some of the economics unappealing to me for my own band.

what i agree about is that a lot of full lengths are way too long.  just because you have 15 songs doesn't mean i want to sit through them.

either do a few singles, save some songs for the next record, or just scrap em all together.

8 - 12 songs is about my limit depending on how mars volta you want to get with song length.

personally, i'd suggest finishing all 12, have them mix to your satisfaction, and then sit down with a good sequence and make a decision.

if you don't like the 12 together, you can alway pull a few (still have an LP to sell for 10 bucks) and have a few finished, mixed tracks to use for random things that come up.

it's not unusual for me to mix a full length of 15 songs when only 12 were ever expected to be on the album.  since i typically mix an entire album for a flat fee, most bands just send everything they cut and just get it done.
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Bill_Urick

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2006, 09:13:33 pm »

j.hall wrote on Sun, 18 June 2006 21:38

techincally anything over 35 minutes (might be 30, i can't remember) is a full length.

that being said, i have to agree with pg666 with an exception.  i'm not a huge fan of EPs.  but to me an EP IS BETWEEN 3 - 6 songs and usually leaves me unsatisfied with a good picture of the band.

i don't think you can justifiably charge 10 bucks for an "EP" and that makes some of the economics unappealing to me for my own band.

what i agree about is that a lot of full lengths are way too long.  just because you have 15 songs doesn't mean i want to sit through them.

either do a few singles, save some songs for the next record, or just scrap em all together.

8 - 12 songs is about my limit depending on how mars volta you want to get with song length.

personally, i'd suggest finishing all 12, have them mix to your satisfaction, and then sit down with a good sequence and make a decision.

if you don't like the 12 together, you can alway pull a few (still have an LP to sell for 10 bucks) and have a few finished, mixed tracks to use for random things that come up.




Thank you all for the input. I think I'll take your advice, Mr. Hall. Thanks again!
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Good sense is, of all things among men, the most equally distributed; for everyone thinks himself so abundantly provided with it, that those even who are the most difficult to satisfy in everything else, do not usually desire a larger measure of this quality than they already possess.

Frob

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2006, 10:09:54 pm »

regardless of how many tracks there are, 60 minutes is usually a good length.

E Merrill

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2006, 02:01:07 am »

Frob wrote on Sun, 18 June 2006 22:09

regardless of how many tracks there are, 60 minutes is usually a good length.


I can rarely keep track of much past 50. I have noticed many of my favorite records are 38 minutes but I have the feeling that modern listeners will resent a total length of less than 40. So I shoot for 42 minutes in 10-12 tracks but have no problem getting away from that in either direction. Still, I think it's rare that longer is better. Exile on Main Street doesn't come around too often.
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j.hall

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2006, 05:13:11 pm »

i think 45 minuters is a good target time.


honestly, i couldn't care any less how long a record is if it moves me.  length of songs has nothing to do with artistic expression and i think those two topics should rarely cross.  if you need 80 minutes to make a statement, then by all means, do it.

i think the economics of an EP are difficult to justify for a band that can expect to move under 1k units......
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pg666

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2006, 05:51:28 pm »

Quote:

i think the economics of an EP are difficult to justify for a band that can expect to move under 1k units......


not necessarily..

in my case, making a 35 minute full length cost nearly twice as much to record and almost twice as much to master as a 16 minute ep. granted, the cd pressing costs/parts cost the same either way (there are exceptions to this, ie. cd-single packages), but it's so cheap nowadays that there's not much sense in letting that take precedence over the art.

it's hard not to lose money on a cd you won't sell more than 1,000 copies of, so you may as well go with which ever version you like better.

p.s. the difference between the price of the aformentioned full lenth and ep= $2
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xonlocust

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2006, 07:09:24 pm »

in my book, an ideal full length should be 35 min and never over 45 min.  8-12 songs.  i'm not overly bothered by 25 min either.

just as in a live show, ALWAYS better to keep them wanting more and hearing the last note thinking "that's all!?" forcing them to hit play again and listen again.

repeat every 14 months....

by the same token, that doesn't mean only record that much, but whittle down the final tracklist to the strongest, most cohesive songs.  keep the others for the inevitable comp requests, split 7"s etc...

although, listening to jessica's songs - i'm coming from a totally different world, so take my advice w/a grain of salt.

E Merrill

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2006, 07:10:11 pm »

j.hall wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 17:13



honestly, i couldn't care any less how long a record is if it moves me.  length of songs has nothing to do with artistic expression and i think those two topics should rarely cross.  if you need 80 minutes to make a statement, then by all means, do it.



"Need" being the operative word.

I wouldn't say that the total length was a primary concern but it's a reference. When records get longer I do hold the material to a higher standard. So few records have 45 minutes of real quality but if someone has 2 hours of great material that's artistically coherent and feels like a single statement then get on with it.




Eric
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garret

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2006, 11:36:06 am »

My take... I think there's an epidemic of under-editing.

Maybe I'm demanding... but give me a short record of your genius material, rather than something padded to 60+ minutes with mediocre tracks, any day.  

Frank Black, I'm talking to you.  Love ya, but please get a filter.  I'll volunteer if you can't find anyone else.

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Frob

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Re: Your opinions please-EP, CD or whatever?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2006, 05:13:59 pm »

i agree that records should be filterd, but i stick to my 60 minute limit. unless the songs are all under 4 minuts nobody wants to sit through 20 3 minuts sonngs. what i ment was no longer then 60 minuts. so i now amend that to 45-60 minuts depending on the avrage track length.
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