R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: FMR Really Nice Compressor  (Read 22812 times)

hargerst

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1458
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2006, 05:59:07 pm »

Andy Peters wrote on Mon, 10 July 2006 16:55

hargerst wrote on Thu, 06 July 2006 17:19

Asymmetrical distortion is one of those distortions and Mark has a pot inside the RNC that he hand trims on each unit to reduce asymmetrical distortion in the RNC.


I haven't opened up an RNC to see what's inside, so I'll guess that they use a THAT VCA.

Is the pot you mention the symmetry trim pot recommended by THAT on their 2181 VCA data sheet?

Seems to me that every manufacturer using this device has to trim it (or use the laser-trimmed 2181 part).  IOW: whoop-de-do.

-a


Yes, Mark hand trims all RNC's before they get packed up.
Logged
Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio

Trumpetman2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 357
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2006, 08:02:55 am »

rankus wrote on Tue, 27 June 2006 18:38

xonlocust wrote on Tue, 20 June 2006 10:04



blueboy - i've noticed the same thing with my RNCs, i've thought it was sort of like putting piece of gauze over the signal.  



This was my experience with the rNC as well.

I could hear a definite loss of harmonic content in the signal even in bypass.  

I had taken one to try and returned it the next day... then took my old DBX 160 in for repair and never looked back.  (note the DBX's are a little "grainy" but I kind of like that.)

I even tried one of the newer DBX multi channel (1060?) units and it went back in mere minutes... They just don't make em like they used to. Get an older unit IE: the "160x"


EDIT:  It appears that I may be mistaken about this unit... Please ignore my post, and see Harvey and my comments below...



Well, you guys are not wrong...I have had 3 RNCs, and each time I end up selling it or giving it away to a friend.  I currently have one and made some comparisons with a Yamaha GC 2020C compressor I just got on e-bay....and the RNC does sound like it muffles the sound.  The overtones of my recorded trumpet were gone with the RNC - they are there when I use the Yammie (hook-up is the same). So, I'm sorry to say that I don't think the RNC works for me...if it does for you, great!
Smile
Logged

Trumpetman2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 357
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2006, 07:52:28 am »

 Cool So, does anyone else have a Yamaha compressor they love...?
Logged

Jack Schitt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 648
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2006, 09:57:20 am »

I have an Alesis compressor that sucks.....
Logged

Andy Peters

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1124
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2006, 05:37:55 pm »

hargerst wrote on Mon, 10 July 2006 14:59

Andy Peters wrote on Mon, 10 July 2006 16:55

hargerst wrote on Thu, 06 July 2006 17:19

Asymmetrical distortion is one of those distortions and Mark has a pot inside the RNC that he hand trims on each unit to reduce asymmetrical distortion in the RNC.


I haven't opened up an RNC to see what's inside, so I'll guess that they use a THAT VCA.

Is the pot you mention the symmetry trim pot recommended by THAT on their 2181 VCA data sheet?

Seems to me that every manufacturer using this device has to trim it (or use the laser-trimmed 2181 part).  IOW: whoop-de-do.


Yes, Mark hand trims all RNC's before they get packed up.


I would imagine that someone on the dbx assembly line trims their compressors, too.

-a
Logged
"On the Internet, nobody can hear you mix a band."

Vertigo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1334
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2006, 10:33:35 am »

Yes, you're all correct - the RNC is terrible. You'd be better off buying a DBX or a Behringer and contributing your RNC to my non-profit shelter for wayward comps. PM me for the address.

-Lance
Logged

Trumpetman2

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 357
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2006, 11:37:44 am »

Vertigo wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 10:33

Yes, you're all correct - the RNC is terrible. You'd be better off buying a DBX or a Behringer and contributing your RNC to my non-profit shelter for wayward comps. PM me for the address.

-Lance



You jest, but I'll tell you I just picked up a Yamaha GC 2020C and it is so much better than the RNC it isn't funny.  If you want the RNC I'll let you have it for $100..... Cool
Logged

hargerst

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1458
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2006, 01:06:49 pm »

Trumpetman2 wrote on Fri, 14 July 2006 10:37

I just picked up a Yamaha GC 2020C and it is so much better than the RNC it isn't funny.

Well, I introduced Mark McQuilken to Aspen Pittman at the NAMM show this weekend, and they spend several hours discussing the problem of using the RNC with the Brick.  They think they came up with a possible solution and Mark is working on testing it.  

The problem is caused by the Brick acting as an effect box in a particular range.  While the RNC may not work well for Trumpetman2, it is still an incredible value, and will a great addition to most peoples equipment lockers. As Fletcher would say, "YMMV".
Logged
Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio

Jim Williams

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1105
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #38 on: August 02, 2006, 10:34:21 am »

I had a chance to repair and test one last spring. The repairs were the power supply reg's fried and the wart jack was damaged.

It uses an AD OP-275 dual opamp and other "stuff" for gain reduction. A dbx rms chip is there, but no dbx vca.

On the Audio Precision, I got to test all it's parameters.
THD+noise was poor, averaging around .1%, too high for a solid state comp. The THD vs amplitude shows a strange jump in THD above +6 db, sort of like a jump up of 10 db of dirt above +6 db. This could be a problem for those feeding A/D converters that need high levels.

The "super nice mode" switch really messes things up, THD goes up to about 4%, higher than what I measure with tube compressors.

The compression knees are not linear. They do a strange gain jumping, up 2 db, down 2 db as levels increase. I've never seen this before in any compressor I've measured.

I would not place this design into the class of clean compressors, but rather into a specialty class of color comps.
Let's hope these issues are addressed in the next revision.
Logged
Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

hargerst

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1458
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #39 on: August 02, 2006, 01:27:11 pm »

Jim, this flies in the face of all the measurements I took on a Neutrik A2 test station, or watched Mark make on his Audio Precision test station.  You might wanna call Mark - it sounds like that unit still has some problems.
Logged
Harvey "Is that the right note?" Gerst
Indian Trail Recording Studio

Kurt Foster

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 204
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2006, 07:15:26 pm »

This is a first for me. I've never seen this one before. Even the cheapest pieces I have used would at least play together in some sort of a reasonable fashion.

Are there any other pre amps that exhibit these same "asymmetrical distortions" that will not play well with the RNC? More important, are there any other compressors that don't play well with the "Brick"?  If not then I would submit that these issues are more with the RNC rather than the "Brick" ... at least that's how it appears to me.

For what it's worth when I had a pair of the Bricks here for testing they worked fine with all my compressors and limiters, (Dyna-Mite, 1178, Manley El Op and UREI LA4's)  ... including the plugs in my music software. In all my yeas in the production biz, I have never seen a compressor mic pre combination that had this problem.
________________________________
Kurt Foster credits include: Brownie McGhee, cult following guitarist, Kenny “Blue" Ray, Jackie Payne (Johnny Otis Band), "Broadway" John Tucker, Nik Turner Space Ritual (with other members of Hawkwind) Jeff Larson, Paul "Polo" Jones (of Michael Jackson, Peter Gabriel, Whitney Houston) and individual members of The Doobie Brothers, Tower of Power, Huey Lewis and The News and The Tubes
Logged

jdier

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 78
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #41 on: August 18, 2006, 08:36:08 pm »

blueboy wrote on Sat, 17 June 2006 02:48

People are going to start thinking that I am an audio snob (which I'm not), but I just picked the RNC up and unfortunately it's not going to work for me.

I really wanted to like the RNC as I felt that it would lessen the DSP used on critical tracks like vocals and leave them a little more natural sounding.

While I like the basic sound of the compression this unit offers, the problem is that it seems to filter most of the harmonic richness that I paid for recently with my Rode K2 and GT Brick. It's not bad sounding by any means, but it doesn't preserve the qualities I'm listening for in comparison to using a good quality plugin (or several plugins) after tracking.

My engineering skills probably don't deserve better at this point, but if I can't get my mixes to sound the way I want yet,  I want to at least make sure that I have the best quality source tracks to work with until I improve.

I'm really bummed about this.

I hate to ask, but what is the next step up in quality in compressors that will take me to an equivalent level that the GT Brick is at (i.e. no fancy features, just good "harmonically rich" sound at a reasonable price)?

Thanks again for all the input, I appreciate it, but I guess my personal expectations were too expensive for my budget.

JL




I am not all that bright, but I have a feeling you are either using it wrong or your unit is broke.  I think that the RNC should shine for the little amount of control you are looking for.  

I would work with it some more and see if you can make it work.

I have three RNC's and one RNLA and just cannot say enough good things about them (but I am not one that uses compressors heavily, just for some control.)
Logged
jdier - Home recordist

(currently selling one of my dual Great River preamps)

dunc

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2006, 04:43:45 am »

I set up a shootout file with 8 different compressors in the price range of the RNC. The winner was the SafeSound P1, which seemed to be transparent and rich at the same time. I did notice a slight change in the sound through all the other units. Most of them thinned the sound somewhat, some added grain, or a glassy high end (Bellari RP583). The loser was the Focusrite Trakmaster, which sounded like it had a cardboard emulator in the circuit. But that's another story. With the RNP/RNC, the sound seemed slightly veiled. It wasn't unpleasant. In fact, in my notes it says 'yellow rich sound'. Curious, I set the RNC threshold so that no led's were lit, tried the bypass switch, and the sound cleared up. What does it all mean? Could've been a level issue. Could be it specs out perfectly but sounds different. After reading Jim Williams comments about the RNC, I don't feel so bad about preferring the SafeSound unit. I just hope he never specks out that unit. I'd hate to find out that my  new 'golden' comp is crap. Especially now that I have two.
Logged

d gauss

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 260
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2006, 01:05:20 pm »

any updates on the brick/RNC issue?  having just bought a brick, i was just about to record an albums worth of vocals via a laptop at the client's house, and the brick/rnc combination is what i was considering...until i read all this Smile

-d. gauss
Logged

compasspnt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16266
Re: FMR Really Nice Compressor
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2006, 01:42:47 pm »

blueboy wrote on Fri, 16 June 2006 21:48


While I like the basic sound of the compression this unit offers, the problem is that it seems to filter most of the harmonic richness that I paid for recently with my Rode K2 and GT Brick.

...I hate to ask, but what is the next step up in quality in compressors that will take me to an equivalent level that the GT Brick is at (i.e. no fancy features, just good "harmonically rich" sound at a reasonable price)?





Hi Jeff,

The more I think about this, the more it seems you are right.  There really is a "missing link" out there, as compressors go.

Both the K2 and The Brick do give a higher level of sound quality than you have a right to expect for the cost.

But so far I haven't seen a compressor that does so, in a reasonable price range.  There may be one, but I don't know of it.

And I'm also afraid that my very first response to your first post is really holding true.

As we do build our own tube compressors here, and use them every day, on every session, I am very familiar with the sound I like, with what goes inside of them, and with what those materials cost.

I would love to find a way to build a really good valve one at a low cost though...
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up