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[Mickey Tee]

Hi,

I appreciate this may be the wrong forum but I think you guys will be able to help.

I have a couple of queries:

1. When mixing, where should the master output sit? I’ve been told it should be set at “zero”, between “zero and minus six db”, and that it “doesn’t matter”. Is there a guiding principle, and does this setting have any effect on anything?

2. I have been experimenting with strapping an L2 across the master outputs (set at 0.0db). While there are obvious benefits, there are obvious (transient loss) downsides. Is this practice common? Would it be more conservative to use a compressor across the master?  


Thanks in advance,

Yours n00bily,

Michael.

[Viitalahde]

Well, peaks at -8dBfs to -6dBfs is OK here, no reason to go near zero since I will anyway attenuate here before the chain. In 24bit world and further, there's no real loss of resolution in doing that. Don't sweat it if you didn't mixdown like this, it's no end of the world.

But the L2 or pretty much any limiter in general is a bad thing and gain absolutely nothing in the mixdown. Even if it sounds like it isn't hurting, the limiting might raise its head in the final processing and give a nasty sound..

[bblackwood]

Mickey Tee wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 04:23

1. When mixing, where should the master output sit? I?ve been told it should be set at ?zero?, between ?zero and minus six db?, and that it ?doesn?t matter?. Is there a guiding principle, and does this setting have any effect on anything?

I suggest you print your mix at a few different levels and see if one sounds better to you. No need to get anywhere near 0dBFS - some of the best sounding mixes I get nowadays are coming in with average levels around -15dBFS...

Quote:

2. I have been experimenting with strapping an L2 across the master outputs (set at 0.0db). While there are obvious benefits, there are obvious (transient loss) downsides. Is this practice common? Would it be more conservative to use a compressor across the master?

No need for an L2 on the mix buss - you don't need to be close enough to 0dBFS to need it.

A compressor can be used if it improves the mix. Do anything you want to make it sound better, but do nothing to make it louder...

[George Poenaru]

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 15:21

I suggest you print your mix at a few different levels and see if one sounds better to you.

For many people will be sound's better at high level (sorry if i didn't understand exactly what you whant to say). I think I didn't gain anything if someone give me to master an -3 dBFS peak instead -6 dBFS peak. I prefer K theory and for DAW, K-system it's included in some plugs.  Anyway this subject it's more than "very used". For me it's just fine 0 VU at -20dBFS without master bus compressor. Even this subject it's "very used" I never understand why ?!! why ?!! some mix eng. send us mixdowns with master bus compressed. For checking it's ok but why send us mixdown with bus master compressor (and limiter sometime)?! if the premastering process can do this better. They fear what?! That we send redbook to plant with 20 dBFS difference between peak and average? Or his tune of atack and release it's better !? Anyway it's not his job to judge this.

[bblackwood]

George wrote on Tue, 23 May 2006 13:41

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 15:21 I suggest you print your mix at a few different levels and see if one sounds better to you. For many people will be sound's better at high level (sorry if i didn't understand exactly what you whant to say).

My point is that there are some who think that mixes sound better/worse at different overall levels. I'm telling him to print at different levels and see which sounds better to him.

He can level match after the fact if he wishes....

Quote:

For me it's just fine 0 VU at -20dBFS without master bus compressor. Even this subject it's "very used" I never understand why ?!! why ?!! some mix eng. send us mixdowns with master bus compressed. For checking it's ok but why send us mixdown with bus master compressor (and limiter sometime)?! if the premastering process can do this better. They fear what?! That we send redbook to plant with 20 dBFS difference between peak and average? Or his tune of atack and release it's better !? Anyway it's not his job to judge this.

Of course it's his job to add buss compression if it makes the track better! The mixer can counteract the effects of the buss compressor - you cannot.

I guess if you're cutting audiophile records of salt shakers and finger cymbals less ir more, but in mainstream music compression is part of the gig.

[Ben F]

I'd suggest doing 2 bounces. One for the band/record company with the L2 strapped across the master with 16bit dithering for CD and around 1-3dB peak limiting, that should satisfy the client in terms of mix level.

Then do another bounce for mastering at the original session bit depth and sample rate without the L2 and no more than -6dBFS on the master fader.