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Author Topic: Can we talk about snares.  (Read 9679 times)

JohnTravis

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2011, 10:12:22 pm »

I think, judging by the examples you chose, your answer is all in the room sound, and of course the drummer. Never underestimate the guy actually hitting the drums, but assuming your drummer is great, rather than focusing on what mic you have right up on the snare, what are you using to mic the room?

Some of the biggest drum sounds ever recorded involved no close mics on the kit and definitely in the case of  the recordings you mentioned the room sounds are in my opinion what is giving it the explosiveness. My suggestion is try turning the rooms up in the mix and see if that gets you closer.

Now Andy Wallace was the mixer on the At the Drive in record and Nevermind (two of the recordings you mentioned) and Andy is a big fan of using a snare sample to feed a reverb. It's a cool trick that might just give you the 'size' and explosiveness you are missing from your snare. Try it and let us know how you get along.

If you are a little unsure how to trigger a sample I highly recommend SPL's sample replacer, I think it's called something like Drum Exchange. It's really well designed and allows you to blend the sample with the recorded snare, it also is quite dynamic in the way it triggers and it is extremely intuitive and easy to figure out.
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fossiltooth

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2011, 12:26:00 pm »

I love the snares from nirvanas nevermind & in utero, at the drive-in, relationship of command.

Parallel snare compression is a factor on some of these sounds, but don't forget the importance of brutal, crushed room mics.

These records also feature really incredible, hard-hitting drummers who wouldn't be caught dead recording a snare if it didn't sound huge and bombastic in the room first. If you're tracking, I recommend experimenting as much as you can with tuning, heads and sizes until you develop a 6th sense for snare sounds.

If you're stuck with other people's tracks, and they're holding you back, samples may be in order. Also: try multing and/or just squashing room mics.

Podgorny

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2011, 01:41:37 pm »

The funny thing is, there isn't a whole lot in common between the examples he cited, except that they all sound good!
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Rick Carson

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2011, 08:11:01 pm »

I know this is exactly how I feel! I guess we should talk about the room more. I always use room mics. Sometimes mono. Usually stereo. I have experimented alot with them and have found a few different positions in my room and most of the tone of my snares comes from these mics. But i am missing that last something. That adds that what I would describe as "solidity" to my sound. That's one thing that I feel my examples have in common is that they are solid sounds.

The funny thing is, there isn't a whole lot in common between the examples he cited, except that they all sound good!
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musiclab

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2011, 09:48:11 am »

I will typically use a compressor on the snare, one I really like lately is the Amek Channel In The Box compressor. It has a button called  MM [much more] it sounds to me like it's adding a limiter to the chain but what ever it is is really nice on the snare. I also routinely do one of the things Fletcher mentioned, which is gate a mult of snare and use that to send to the reverb. Also keep in mind your overheads usually are a huge part of the tone of the kit. When I get drums sounds I usually start with the overheads, and then go on to the individual mics. I use the same approach when recording drums
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Schimpf

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2011, 10:04:55 am »

give us an example of a song that has the exploding snare you are trying to recreate for your mixes.

michael

Hi Michael,

Since you asked, I am wondering if you can talk about the snare sound, and drum sound in general on the song "Yellow". That track seems to be different from the rest of the songs on the album. Just curious how you approached that song, how did those drum tracks sound when you first listened?

Big fan BTW, thanks for the great work!

John
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musiclab

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2011, 01:57:07 pm »

what works for me when mixing the snare is an Amek Channel in the Box with the compressor's
MM button depressed. Besides that the overheads and the room are key to making the drums sound like they're exploding. Like Fletcher spoke of I will usually send my processed snare to a bus or send [I mix on a console] gate that and send that to a reverb. I will also do all of the usual tricks to the room mics. One thing tho, sometimes if the drummers got a lot of ride cymbal or cymbal bell, the room can get tough to smash, in which case if I recorded the drums
I will usually have a file of hits I took from the drummer when we tracked. I'll take the stereo room of those single hits and retrigger that off the snare. It has the added plus of that you're not using someone else's samples and enables you to get that huge room without the cymbals
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Cass Anawaty

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2011, 08:39:27 pm »

I will usually have a file of hits I took from the drummer when we tracked. I'll take the stereo room of those single hits and retrigger that off the snare. It has the added plus of that you're not using someone else's samples and enables you to get that huge room without the cymbals
Thanks--I like that idea.
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KyleG

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2011, 01:07:26 am »

I will usually have a file of hits I took from the drummer when we tracked. I'll take the stereo room of those single hits and retrigger that off the snare. It has the added plus of that you're not using someone else's samples and enables you to get that huge room without the cymbals

I've done this to augment/replace the close mics but never thought of using them to trigger the room like this. I'll definitely have to try this out next time I encounter this problem.
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bgrotto

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2011, 10:57:46 pm »

For me, the snare drum sound comes almost entirely from the OHs and/or room mics.  Even when I'm using samples, I typically lean towards samples with some (or lots of) ambience; usually a blend of a close mic with OHs or room.  A lotta top end, a lotta depth, and a lotta nuance comes from the more ambient mics.

I like the close top mic to fill in the bottom and low mids, and maybe add a bit of "point" to the attack.  I also like to manipulate it with compression to affect the attack, sustain, and ring of the drum.  For harder rock stuff, I find myself typically boosting the extremes (top and bottom) into a compressor.  The 1176 works well for adding some chunk, if the snare needs it.  Distressors are good for bringing out the midrange, maybe some ring.  LA2As can be great for giving you a nice "smack" and a nice, pillowy soft sustain (this works super well into a plate reverb, though now we're getting away from the "exploding" sound mentioned in the OP).

As for adding reverb, kinda tough to beat "Tiled Room" from a PCM70.  "Small Room" works well, too.  I lean on those two (particularly the former) pretty heavily.  If I'm recording the drums myself, I'll make a full set of samples, and trigger a sample of the room mics.  Makes the drummer sound big n' mean.
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musiclab

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Re: Can we talk about snares.
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2011, 11:44:23 am »

I also like #112 Reverb/Compress on the KSP8 for rock drums. And on the inexpensive side, the SRV 330 has some nice rooms for drums
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