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[Pingu]

Alright guys i need some help to clear up a few things from you protools le experts.



I recently finished a mix.

I did a bounce and i also recorded the realtime playback by routing the audio within pt and recorded it.

They nulled perfectly.

However i still feel they both sound a little different than the real time playback, and im wondering why this is.

Am i hearing things or does it have to do with the fact that i have plugins on the master fader and that ptle does not have ADC.

Keep in mind im not over loading the mix buss and dont have much automation happening.



Also have you guys ever run into this situation and if so what do you/can you, do about it.

Under what circumstances can not having ADC be an issue.




I would really appreciate responses on this guys.

Thanks for any help.



In future would it help if i did this,

route everything to an audio track, arm it so i can hear the play back.

Then when I'm finished mixing press record.

What do you guys rekon?

[j.hall]

i'd vote for fooling yourself.

power of the mind can be intense.  mcsnare can comment on that as we've discussed it at length and he's lived it more then once.

ADC is most crucial with drums, IMO.

the phasing of all the drum mics is absolutely crucial to a mix and a few samples here and there can ruin the low end from a kick drum and floot tom.

same would be true in you are blending two bass mics or a DI.

anyway.  if you are doing all the routing internal to PT and not coming out analog and going back in.  there should be no difference in sonics.

i'd have a third party listen to it and not tell them a thing.  "can you hear any difference in these two mixes?"

don't tell them any more then that.

ALWAYS listen through your record path......ALWAYS

[NelsonL]

Many RTAS plugins have little or no latency anyway.

But it doesn't actually matter on the master fader since everything is delayed equally.

[garret]

I'm with J on this one.  If you think you can hear a difference, you should be able to do a blind-A-B test, and consistently pick one as the "better."

Also keep in mind that volume difference is the biggest problem in making a-b comparisons... as little as 0.1 db can fool your ears.   So normalize the A & B clips before doing your test.   Since the signal paths are very similar, that's probably all you need to do... if you were comparing tracking tape versus daw, it'd be tricker, you might need rms (loudness) matching or something rather than simple normalization.

[j.hall]

don't normalize them.

set PT to display peak ("pk") levels on the meters and just see which one is louder.  turn that fader down the appropriate amount.

[archtop]

They will only null, if they are EXACTLY the same.

[wwittman]

it always sounds different to m.

so I do the one  *I* find sounds better.

Really, what does it MATTER what other people think?

if one souds better to you, do that.
if they sound the same to you, do either.

it's not worth wasting time worrying about.

[compasspnt]

The question here is not "Why a difference between bounce and internal bussing," but rather, "Do BOTH methods sound different than the "live playback?"

Personally, I doubt that they do, but the delays from plugs on one or two tracks (esp drums or basses, as mentioned) could easily cause enough comb filtering to affect it.

I agree, listen through the destination!

[Pingu]

Thanks a lot guys.

[Daniel Asti]

archtop wrote on Thu, 01 June 2006 17:53

They will only null, if they are EXACTLY the same.

That's my opinion too. You say "they nulled perfectly". Even the slightest change in sound would therefore make that null impossible, right?

I think any change in compression(normalization), eq or delay would change the waveform.