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Author Topic: a pointless thread about subjective experiences  (Read 10047 times)

imagineaudio

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2006, 12:21:22 am »

What if I do video production.  What If I choose to only do skate movies, we all know skaters are mostly white (I do not claim that to be fact, just for sake of argument), would that make me a racist?  Or would that just be me working on a genre of film that i felt I was best at and was more comfortable with?   Would I get sued by MC G-Dogg for not producing his rap video?  I don't think so....




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chris haines

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2006, 10:18:17 am »

anybody have a link for the sex tape?
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Rinkydink Audio, studio
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iCombs

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2006, 12:26:15 pm »

Vertigo wrote on Wed, 03 May 2006 11:59

Quote:

Besides, hip-hop is not a "black only" genre.


It is if you're talking about GOOD hip-hop Wink

Although there IS something addictive about Faf Larage...

-Lance



Let us not forget Atmosphere.  Slug is my favorite MC anywhere, anytime.  And he's a white kid from Minneapolis.
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wiggins

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2006, 07:11:12 pm »

chris haines wrote on Tue, 09 May 2006 10:18

anybody have a link for the sex tape?



word.

Jason Phair

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2006, 07:54:08 pm »

Point someone made: "Rappers are and associate with violent people - working with them might get you robbed."

Point made with same logic: "If you play guitar in a heavy metal band, you're going to get shot on stage"


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Jason Phair
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Get that fucking thing off my vocal will ya?

Thanks.

John Ivan

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2006, 09:53:28 pm »

Jason Phair wrote on Sun, 14 May 2006 18:54

Point someone made: "Rappers are and associate with violent people - working with them might get you robbed."

Point made with same logic: "If you play guitar in a heavy metal band, you're going to get shot on stage"




This is just crazy. You are talking about an isolated incident. A Nut job killed a guy at a rock show. Period.

You can like it.Not like it,understand it,or not understand it but the truth is that in the inner City,if you are recording Lot's of RAP, because of how and where a whole lot of your clients live, there is a very very good chance you will be dealing with people who would think nothing of beating your ass for reasons that we who DON'T live how and where they do, just don't understand.

This is as true as wheels being round. Period.

It's not EVERYONE WHO MAKES RAP RECORDS but a whole bunch of these cats are dealers and gang members.Why is there anyone left in the country/world who does not understand this?.

JI..............................................
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jimmyjazz

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2006, 11:15:43 pm »

Jason Phair wrote on Sun, 14 May 2006 19:54

Point someone made: "Rappers are and associate with violent people - working with them might get you robbed."

Point made with same logic: "If you play guitar in a heavy metal band, you're going to get shot on stage"






Uh, what?  Bad parallel, Jason.  Doesn't work, much as you want it to.
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Tomas Danko

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2006, 08:58:42 am »

Jason Phair wrote on Mon, 15 May 2006 00:54

Point someone made: "Rappers are and associate with violent people - working with them might get you robbed."

Point made with same logic: "If you play guitar in a heavy metal band, you're going to get shot on stage"



Don't even mention those metal/rap-bands out there these days!
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kraster

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2006, 08:41:40 pm »

jimmyjazz wrote on Mon, 15 May 2006 04:15

Jason Phair wrote on Sun, 14 May 2006 19:54

Point someone made: "Rappers are and associate with violent people - working with them might get you robbed."

Point made with same logic: "If you play guitar in a heavy metal band, you're going to get shot on stage"






Uh, what?  Bad parallel, Jason.  Doesn't work, much as you want it to.




I think Jason's point is about the danger of making sweeping generalisations about anything.

The unavoidable subtext put forward by certain individuals in this thread is that Rap Music is populated by dangerous and violent black people. The characterisation of a certain group of people having an inherently bad trait is known as prejudice. The implication that this is a race issue marks this prejudice as racist.

It's true that a lot of Hip-Hop deals with and, in some cases promotes, issues that are violent and illegal but in a lot of cases these are simply reflections of the society that the Hip-Hop guys come from.

And before somebody decides to take issue with the whole sexist angle of Rap Music I don't think good ol' Rock n' Roll is something that would stand up to much scrutiny as a beacon of moral fortitude in relation to women's role in society.

This isn't a libertarian utopia point of view. Prejudice and the exclusion of people based on perceived threat will only reinforce the prejudices that people hold and that never helps any society progress.

If there are individuals within any genre of music that behave in a socially unacceptable way whilst using your facilities, by all means, you are perfectly within your rights to get rid of them. But there's no need to tar everyone with the same brush.
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Buzz

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2006, 08:54:21 pm »


If there are individuals within any genre of music that behave in a socially unacceptable way whilst using your facilities, by all means, you are perfectly within your rights to get rid of them. But there's no need to tar everyone with the same brush.[/quote]

Hey if the tar them dont they get to feather them too ???? BAD QUOTE IMO

LAter
Buzz

PS: Just kidding

John Ivan

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2006, 10:44:34 pm »

kraster wrote on Mon, 15 May 2006 19:41

jimmyjazz wrote on Mon, 15 May 2006 04:15

Jason Phair wrote on Sun, 14 May 2006 19:54

Point someone made: "Rappers are and associate with violent people - working with them might get you robbed."

Point made with same logic: "If you play guitar in a heavy metal band, you're going to get shot on stage"






Uh, what?  Bad parallel, Jason.  Doesn't work, much as you want it to.




I think Jason's point is about the danger of making sweeping generalisations about anything.

The unavoidable subtext put forward by certain individuals in this thread is that Rap Music is populated by dangerous and violent black people. The characterisation of a certain group of people having an inherently bad trait is known as prejudice. The implication that this is a race issue marks this prejudice as racist.

It's true that a lot of Hip-Hop deals with and, in some cases promotes, issues that are violent and illegal but in a lot of cases these are simply reflections of the society that the Hip-Hop guys come from.

And before somebody decides to take issue with the whole sexist angle of Rap Music I don't think good ol' Rock n' Roll is something that would stand up to much scrutiny as a beacon of moral fortitude in relation to women's role in society.

This isn't a libertarian utopia point of view. Prejudice and the exclusion of people based on perceived threat will only reinforce the prejudices that people hold and that never helps any society progress.

If there are individuals within any genre of music that behave in a socially unacceptable way whilst using your facilities, by all means, you are perfectly within your rights to get rid of them. But there's no need to tar everyone with the same brush.


I agree with what you say here and would like to point out again that I play a lot of music with Black people and have lived on and off in the inner city Black communities. I don't turn people away unless I have reason to believe that they are dangerous. I have also dealt with my fair share of dangerous white people and now live in the Latino end {north side} of Lansing.People are quite poor here too.

I am pointing out a failure in our society. I feel that our minority communities have been left to rot and not enough has been done to educate poor people from every Race.

The specific Problems I've seen up close have to do with young Gangs forming to sell drugs and protect their interests. This has to do with Money made from selling drugs,turning out Hookers, throwing huge parties and very cleverly stealing expensive things without being caught. This describes the typical Gang and they come in all stripes. There are white Gangs engaged in the same activities.

As it turns out, many of these guys like to make RAP records and have a lot of money. Before it was "Hip" for white kids to emulate this culture, it was for the most part a black art form. It is also worth pointing out that Black people who headed off to university or started their own businesses were less likely to be interested in making RAP records.So, it was in many cases, young gang kids with a lot of money from the street making these records. Now that it's hip, everyone wants to do it.

I simply am not a racist. I say this in case anyone get's this idea either from something I wrote or something someone else has written, or might write in the future.

JI..............................
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kraster

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2006, 01:21:24 pm »

John Ivan wrote on Tue, 16 May 2006 03:44



I agree with what you say here and would like to point out again that I play a lot of music with Black people and have lived on and off in the inner city Black communities. I don't turn people away unless I have reason to believe that they are dangerous. I have also dealt with my fair share of dangerous white people and now live in the Latino end {north side} of Lansing.People are quite poor here too.

I am pointing out a failure in our society. I feel that our minority communities have been left to rot and not enough has been done to educate poor people from every Race.

The specific Problems I've seen up close have to do with young Gangs forming to sell drugs and protect their interests. This has to do with Money made from selling drugs,turning out Hookers, throwing huge parties and very cleverly stealing expensive things without being caught. This describes the typical Gang and they come in all stripes. There are white Gangs engaged in the same activities.

As it turns out, many of these guys like to make RAP records and have a lot of money. Before it was "Hip" for white kids to emulate this culture, it was for the most part a black art form. It is also worth pointing out that Black people who headed off to university or started their own businesses were less likely to be interested in making RAP records.So, it was in many cases, young gang kids with a lot of money from the street making these records. Now that it's hip, everyone wants to do it.

I simply am not a racist. I say this in case anyone get's this idea either from something I wrote or something someone else has written, or might write in the future.

JI..............................



Hi John,

As I said in my post if anyone feels that certain individuals are a threat then banning these individuals from your facility is the right course of action. I can see that your policies are based on common sense and you only, rightfully, want to protect yourself. You certainly don't come across as racist.

I'd be more concerned with the policy that bans people wholesale based on a genre of music. A genre that "just so happens" to be a predominantly black one. The catch-22 in society is that if you prevent people from pursuing something that could get them out of their poverty then they remain poor and disillusioned and the reason for banning them stays the same. And certainly, there are bona fide and talented black artists out their that should be given the space to create.

I'm even more concerned with the policy of the media to persistently put the gangsta image forward as something for black people to aspire to. I don't see the record company execs in a hurry to offer an alternate view or aspiration. They merely exploit ghetto "glamour". Presenting it as some kind of life where women, drugs, and Cristal abound. This is far from the reality of the inner-city black communities you mentioned.

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jimmyjazz

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2006, 03:43:45 pm »

kraster wrote on Tue, 16 May 2006 13:21

I'm even more concerned with the policy of the media to persistently put the gangsta image forward as something for black people to aspire to. I don't see the record company execs in a hurry to offer an alternate view or aspiration. They merely exploit ghetto "glamour". Presenting it as some kind of life where women, drugs, and Cristal abound.


But that's the stereotype being promulgated by most mainstream rap & hiphop acts!  It may not be an adequate characterization of ALL people working in that genre, but it's certainly the lyrical focus of a solid majority, and the visual focus of a solid majority of those who make videos.

I won't argue for a minute that hard rock dealt with many of the same things over the years.  I think the biggest difference is that rock acts rarely advocated violence, which just can't really be said about rap & hiphop.

For me, it's a fairly easy choice to make.  I don't listen to very much of that music, so I don't feel qualified to work on it.  The same goes for classical, jazz, and to some degree, country.  If I don't have something to offer besides some nice gear, a decent room, good pitch and a quick punch finger, I don't want to work on the project.  I like being more involved than that.
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John Ivan

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2006, 05:09:33 pm »

As an Engineer, I'll work on any of that stuff. If I'm asked to produce? when it comes to Rap, I'm not qualified. Although, I did do a Christian Rap tune for my buddy Al's Son. Al is a great R&B singer, writer with whom I did a bunch of Demo's. He dragged his kid in to do a RAP and it was a trip seeing this Kid spread the Good Word with an in your Face attitude Cool .


Kraster,

Very well stated and I agree with you. Simply sending folks out the door out of fear is bad news. If you don't feel qualified to work on something, that's one thing but I would encourage folks to reach out and try to engineer as many styles as possible. I did a few Folk things with all acoustic Guitars, stand up, fiddle, Banjo and boy. It Kicked my ass at first and I learned a lot and can now do it.

I'm not a fan of Drum Machines AT ALL but have been forcing myself to learn "that sound" with all those damn Loops and  what not. It's making me a better Engineer too because I'm having to overcome MY taste and serve the tune. It's hard work.

Recording a rock band? or an Old school blues or soul thing? Easy in comparison for me because that's who I am.

JimmyJazz,

You are right that the "mainstream" Hip Hop and Rap folks are cleaning up on this Bad ass image. Most of the Black folks I know are growing very tired of this now. They tell me personally that "It's good the story of "the street" has been told but when do we start working and growing through these problems?"

All good points.

The larger African American community at large that I know are doing what we are all doing. Working,trying to pay our bills and make a life for our Families. The universal human quest for happiness. Hers to that.

JI..........................................
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kraster

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Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2006, 10:28:49 pm »

jimmyjazz wrote on Tue, 16 May 2006 20:43


But that's the stereotype being promulgated by most mainstream rap & hiphop acts!  It may not be an adequate characterization of ALL people working in that genre, but it's certainly the lyrical focus of a solid majority, and the visual focus of a solid majority of those who make videos.





But why does the media focus on gangsta? Gangsta Rap used to be one of the many sub-genres of Hip Hop. Nowadays it's rare that you hear anything but gangsta rap.

There are still other Hip-Hop styles in existence but these are overlooked. The fact that there is a solid majority of rappers going for the gangsta thing merely indicates how successful it is. When any music is commercially successful it always spawns a million clones that want a piece of the action. I guarantee you if 50 cent started rappin' about the environment and had a big hit with it you would see an overnight change in subject matter from everyone else. (Shuddering at the thought)

The gangsta chic angle is an entire industry unto itself. Just walk down any high street and you'll see kids paying inordinate sums of cash on clothes, shoes and jewellery in order to look like poverty stricken black kids from LA.
Go figure!

As with all things nowadays they are just selling a myth. Behind  all the glock-waving, cash-flashing, booty calling antics there is a cold calculating corporate mind that filters out the grim reality of the streets. What the kids get is a glossy MTV lifestyle. One big ol' party back at the crib. It's an attractive and powerful image particlularly to those that live in that grim reality.







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