R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Down

Author Topic: a pointless thread about subjective experiences  (Read 10013 times)

Fenris Wulf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 499
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2006, 04:06:26 am »

x
Logged
RESIST THE CYBERNETIC OVERLORDS
KDVS Studio A

Daniel Asti

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 81
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2006, 03:21:08 pm »

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Sat, 22 April 2006 07:36

Here's a tale of a scumbag posing as a musician ... I wonder if Steve or any other Chicagoans heard about this ...

In 2000/2001, when I had a studio in the Chicago area, I did some recording and mixing for an R&B singer named Derrick Mosley. He never had any money on him, and kept promising to "pay me next time."


All this really tells me is that you lack business skills. But it's more than that...  It's a lack of people skills. It's no ones fault but your own that you kept working for free. Your biography on this site seems to indicate your a sucker.

I've shown this post to almost everyone whose come through the studio today because of how much it really rubbed me the wrong way (I saw it yesterday). But it was a wonderful woman who is older and African-American whose whose thoughts on it really made me want to reply. She has worked with everyone from Kanye West to Tom Dowd in her years.  She said that it used to be "like walking on eggshells" with certain engineers and in certain studios, where being black "they watched you like a criminal" ("Tom!?" - "Oh No! Honey, Not Tom, He was wonderful"). And she said it's not racist but "hatist". I can really understand the truth in that because of the way this was passed on the board - "Hey guys let's all have a discussion about music based on my experience with one criminal." There are so many generalizations and stereotypes in some of the replys and they come from people who don't really know either genre well enough to be commenting on it.

For instance if I just go to MTV.com - look at soul/R&B. I get GNARLS BARKLEY "crazy" - which is a great song - wonderful recording and an outstanding video.  John Legend is an extraordinary talent. Mariah Carey - Say Something is a very well done tune which has the signature Neptunes melody. The Shakira - Rihanna - Mary J. Blige - LL Cool J and Jamie Fox tracks I don't care for as much but they round out the rest of what is listed on there.  Associating Derrick Mosely's criminal actions with those artists is hateful and criminal itself.

What was hilarious was I had to keep explaining to her that Steve Albini did not post this, she kept saying, "but I love Nirvana". Even joked that I should post it on Def Jam's message board.

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Sat, 22 April 2006 07:36


He acted like a big-shot wheeler-dealer businessman, and he kept saying "I know R. Kelley."


Not to mention the swampland... what a difficult situation for you that must been, sounds like a real trickster...

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Sat, 22 April 2006 07:36


Finally, he ended up stranded at my studio because his current girlfriend/meal ticket got mad at him and wouldn't come to pick him up, and I had to drive him home to Gary, Indiana, which I did to get rid of him rather than have him hanging around. I was extremely pissed off and told him not to come back. I found the guy VERY creepy. As a result of this and other experiences I instituted a policy of "no hip-hop or R&B."


You had to drive him back? Your such a nice guy! You should make some T-shirts up - "I recorded Derrick Mosely and All I got was this stinkin' t-shirt!"?

It's ok to not record hip hop and R&B or any other genre but coming to that conclusion and judgement is just like saying you won't record rock and roll and country because you were hustled by someone who stole a mic. Again it's just you poorly rationalizing a deeper hatred. How often are you alone burning with hate just thinking "Nigger!"? When you turn on the radio or TV? When you are driving? Be honest now...

I know you said you had "other experiences" but I've been engineering long enough to know that if you run your business properly you don't get scammed.

It's wrong for Steve to just call you a racist because you are a little bit more than that. Instead of just saying that you are - you try to word your way around it by basically offering up ... "oh, I tried to be real nice and work with those monkeys and see where it got me!"  BULLSH*T ... Keep the hate man! Stay negative! White power!
Logged

Fenris Wulf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 499
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2006, 07:28:21 pm »

x
Logged
RESIST THE CYBERNETIC OVERLORDS
KDVS Studio A

Daniel Asti

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 81
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2006, 12:18:06 am »

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 19:28

Modern hip-hop has become COMPLETELY dominated by the "gangsta" style and this is true on every level from MTV to the street.


Actually it hasn't "become COMPLETELY dominated" which is why I wrote for you to go to mtv.com and click on soul R&B and actual look and listen to what was up there. I listed everything that was there. I don't see any "gangsta". The Mariah Carey track that is up there has nothing to do with "gangsta", ironically the vocal is, "say something good to me". Pharrel - who wrote that track - IS AN EXTREMELY GOOD MUSICIAN AND PRODUCER - he has a knack for writting pop hits and selling records.

Gnarles Barkley - crazy - another track UP THERE NOW - IS ALSO MUSICIANS and A HELL OF A TALENTED SINGER as well as a great video - if you bothered to look and listen to the music or what I wrote.

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 19:28


Gangsta rap has become insanely popular ...



Kanye West - Late Registration was by far the best selling album of last year. Jon Brion, one of the best studio MUSICIAN/songwriters I've ever heard period is on almost EVERY TRACK. There is tons of Vocal work and live orchestra ALL over the album.

John Legend - who won a best new artist grammy - is R&B and his PLAYS PIANO and EXTREMLY WELL.

You are talking about something that I WORK IN EVERY DAY. WITH REAL MUSICIANS WHO PLAY REAL LIVE INSTRUMENTS. I know this industry inside and out. Trust me, Fenris, you know little about R&B or hip-hop and you obviously feel like stereotyping a genre with your ears plugged up.

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 19:28


I will record anyone who can play a musical instrument. That's my policy.



Only if it's not a hip-hop or R&B, right? Again, I SAID it's OK to say no HIP-HOP and R&B. It's even ok to not like black people but you offended me and other people who read your posting by comparing them to Mosely. Don't you get it?

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 19:28


You are a mindless, politically correct twit and I do not have to justify myself to you.



Good argument except for the fact that you started the thread you should be able to justify what you say. You say most hip-hop / R&B is "gangsta", "on the street and on mtv". But mtv.com click on soul/r&b and none of it's gangsta.

Again your post offended people - people found it racist - you don't have to justify it but to be starting it on an engineering forum is kinda crappy.

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 19:28


The worst Derrick Mosely did was waste a few days of my time. I had no ill-will towards the guy, I kind of felt sorry for him because he was such a loser. That also goes for the former employer mentioned in my bio, who had serious mental problems. These were learning experiences.



Actually Derrick Mosely's actions brought about your "No hip hop / r&b" policy. And you were happy to share your story about him while associating it with EVERYONE involved with hip-hop and r&b.

From a business standpoint a "No pay no play" policy would have worked.  But again, you could have come out and just said, "I don't like hip-hop and r&b and I won't record it in my studio."  I DON'T have a problem with that at all. Theres a studio a block from here that won't do anything but classical.

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 19:28


I know for a fact that a well-respected guy who posts here refuses to work with Christian Contemporary bands. In his experience, Christian labels are some of THE sleaziest people in the business and they think they have a right to stiff you on payment because they're doing "God's work."



Again, it's business. "No pay no play" works great for us here. I would believe there are sleazy people in every genre and part of society. I've been around long enough to know that MOST people are GOOD PEOPLE, unless you act like a doormat and don't run your business correctly, you probably will be able to make things go very smooth. I wouldn't just say all Christian labels don't feel like they should pay for things that they purchase and use though. I wouldn't throw out the entire carton because of one cracked egg.

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 19:28


Why doncha go and accuse him of being a crypto-pagan devil worshipper who is plotting to bring back the Colloseum and throw Christians to the lions.



No way, I don't know what he wrote, I don't know who he is and I don't speak like that anyway.

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 19:28


In this business, you have to be a hard-ass or you will get RAPED by all the sleazebags out there and you will go bankrupt.



I think it's painfully obvious that you are the last person who should be giving out business advise or telling it like it is. Some people don't get "RAPED" or have to be a "hard-ass". I just set my fee and I never work for free and grown year over year for the past 6 years.

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Thu, 18 May 2006 19:28


Get the stick out of your ass, get Dr. Dre's dick out of your mouth, and stop living in a utopian fantasy world.



Wow - I guess I didn't read that correcly til just now. I felt like I made some serious points about how your stereotypes and generalizations offended myself and others.

It offends me because this is what I work with EVERYDAY - it's what I do for a living. You do need to know that what you write is very insulting on a personal level and you can't just run away from it by saying that "oh well this one song by this one rapper was just as bad."

In your lack of understanding of the genre you don't even realize that I don't talk like that or record content like that. Neither do most people!
Logged

jimmyjazz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1885
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2006, 01:14:05 am »

Disregarding the fact that I know virtually jackshit about rap & hiphop, save a few CDs we all own, I see it as a typical risk/reward situation.  What's the risk I'll have problems in the studio?  What's the potential reward?  (Certainly getting paid counts, but all my clients pay.  Will I expand my horizons?  That's cool.  I like that.  What else?)

So tell me . . . what are the odds I will have loaded, concealed weapons in my studio if I record rap & hiphop in a major urban area like Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, LA, etc.  What are those odds with punk/hard rock/metal?  Country?

Another issue, which might actually swing the pendulum in rap & hiphop's favor:  what about drugs & search/seizure issues with the local cops?  I'm not interested in losing my studio because some guy is doing 8-balls in the bathroom.

Honest questions.  Which genre is likely to bring artists to my studio who are armed?  Doing narcotics?  Having sex in the vocal booth?  (Wait, that's not illegal, and it's already happened around here.  Too many times, I might add.  Clean up after yourself, assholes.)
Logged

groucho

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 40
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2006, 02:38:59 am »

Quote:


I will record anyone who can play a musical instrument. That's my policy.


So presumably you would turn away Frank Sinatra, Billie Holiday, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, the entire cast of American Idol...etc. etc.?

Anyway, if Fenris feels threatened by a particular group of people, it's only sensible that he protect himself by banning them.

What this thread really shows in abundance is how painfully little he knows about the group he feels threatened by. It appears that most of his information about Hip-Hop culture comes from the sensationalist reports one might expect to see on Fox News.

The single incident he described in his 1st post was a textbook example of bad business practices and an utter lack of common sense, but to HIM, it represented the excuse he'd been wanting to act on his fear.

The tragedy here is not that he's a racist and HURTING other people with it. Hip-hop will go on just fine without him. The tragedy - as with all people who are ruled by fear and ignorance - is that he is cutting HIMSELF off from a richer (in both senses of the word) studio-owning experience. Not to mention a huge body of vital American music and experience.

I feel sorry for him. As I do for all the sad people out there who are ruled by fear of things they don't understand. With the helpful assistance of our fear-mongering media of course.

Chris
Logged

Fenris Wulf

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 499
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2006, 04:34:36 am »

My policy is that when I get cold calls from rappers I don't know, I turn them down. Many studios have the same policy, after too many bad experiences with rappers. Hip-hop needs to clean its own house and take a stand against gangs and violence. Until then, my policy stands.

If a rapper was introduced to me and I saw that his music was positive, I would make an exception. I'm a big fan of old-school hip-hop, and I also enjoy hybrid acts like Black Eyed Peas, The Roots, and Outkast.

I threw out a careless statement which was misunderstood. I'm sorry if anyone felt I was insulting them or their clients. But when people jump on me, call me a racist, and imply that I ought to be prosecuted, fined, and imprisoned for my business practices, THAT is offensive. This discussion is asinine and I have nothing more to say about it.
Logged
RESIST THE CYBERNETIC OVERLORDS
KDVS Studio A

Daniel Asti

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 81
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2006, 11:56:58 am »

jimmyjazz wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 01:14

Disregarding the fact that I know virtually jackshit about rap & hiphop, save a few CDs we all own, I see it as a typical risk/reward situation.  What's the risk I'll have problems in the studio?  What's the potential reward?  (Certainly getting paid counts, but all my clients pay.  Will I expand my horizons?  That's cool.  I like that.  What else?)

So tell me . . . what are the odds I will have loaded, concealed weapons in my studio if I record rap & hiphop in a major urban area like Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, LA, etc.  What are those odds with punk/hard rock/metal?  Country?

Another issue, which might actually swing the pendulum in rap & hiphop's favor:  what about drugs & search/seizure issues with the local cops?  I'm not interested in losing my studio because some guy is doing 8-balls in the bathroom.

Honest questions.  Which genre is likely to bring artists to my studio who are armed?  Doing narcotics?  Having sex in the vocal booth?  (Wait, that's not illegal, and it's already happened around here.  Too many times, I might add.  Clean up after yourself, assholes.)


It's a good question and I can answer it only from my personal perspective.  I deal with basically 80% Soul/R&B/Hip-Hop - I do alot of "fix it work" (i.e. "this is wrong" or "this just sucks - gotta fix it quick!" - some surround work - some restoration, etc.. I have a decent live room - and I have what I consider a great vocal and soloist booth which I designed. I have worked in studios in London - Los Angeles - Boulder/Denver as well as Brooklyn/Manhattan and I'm now in my own spot in Long Island City (about 350 yards from the Empire State Building).  There are probably 20 studios within walking distance of here. I'm also 20 minutes from major labels and mastering studios like Sterling and such.

I have a part-time secretary. I create as professional of an environment here as possibe at least for a smaller studio. A no BS environment - no smoking - no drinking ...  I very rarely have to lay down boundarys. People that come here behave like professionals and come here to get work done. If I knew someone had a gun in here I would probably tell them to never come back and definetely to leave before I called the police. If they had some weed they could smoke it outside - people of all style of music smoke weed I find. Personally, I can't work if I smoke it. If they had coke or smack I would also ask them to leave my studio and tell them to get some help but cokeheads and junkies get swallowed up pretty quick. It's very difficult for artists these days (as always I suppose) - you have to work very hard - maintain a grueling schedule - be in the right places and then the window of opportunity is so, soooo small and the average lifespan is so short. Being high is not going to give you a great opportunity to take advantage of it.

I was in London in the early 90's in my very first studio job and you would definetely know that some bands were high or hungover. But as the engineer you have leverage - you can record them and call the label - send them the crap they recorded and say "it was out of my hands, that'll be $3000 please!". Getting wasted in the studio is a very expensive mistake. The same goes for any other distraction and artist in every genre tend to understand that.
Logged

Daniel Farris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2439
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2006, 02:12:22 pm »

jimmyjazz wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 06:14

So tell me . . . what are the odds I will have loaded, concealed weapons in my studio if I record rap & hiphop in a major urban area like Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, LA, etc.  What are those odds with punk/hard rock/metal?  Country?


The first time I saw a loaded gun in my studio, it belonged to a rock musician. I've never seen one at a rap session.

Quote:

Another issue, which might actually swing the pendulum in rap & hiphop's favor:  what about drugs & search/seizure issues with the local cops?  I'm not interested in losing my studio because some guy is doing 8-balls in the bathroom.


I had spoon burns on my bathroom sink long before I ever worked on my first hip hop or rap session.

I caught another rock group cutting lines on my CP-70, and I sent them packing. And don't get me started on rock bands and drinking. Fuck! I had a guy go into my bathroom, take careful aim, and piss right the fuck into the corner onto the floor.

Rock musicians are worse with drinking than any of my rap clients are with any other type of annoyance.

With rap, the worst I've seen is guys slipping out back to smoke weed. Fine. They barely (or rarely) even drink.

Mind you, my work is mostly rock. I have about 8 to 10 regular rap clients that make up about 30% of my business. But this isn't the result of carefully choosing or training my clientele. I work for anyone who calls, pretty much without exception.

(I've never been faced with being asked to record a white power group. The problem with that is, I figure, that they'll probably be here and well into the session before I figure out what kind of music it is.)

DF
Logged

rankus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5560
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2006, 06:09:17 pm »

bacon skin wrote on Fri, 19 May 2006 11:12

 I had a guy go into my bathroom, take careful aim, and piss right the fuck into the corner onto the floor.


DF


LOL   I had a BLIND punk rocker in once who got shitfaced drunk and when he went to the bathroom,,, well let's just say he used hearing to detect when he was hitting the toilet.....
Logged
Rick Welin - Clark Drive Studios http://www.myspace.com/clarkdrivestudios

Ive done stuff I'm not proud of.. and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting ~ Moe Sizlack

"There is no crisis in energy, the crisis is in imagination" ~ Buckminster Fuller

Daniel Farris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2439
Re: "I know R. Kelley ..."
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2006, 09:11:10 pm »

rankus wrote on Tue, 23 May 2006 23:09

LOL   I had a BLIND punk rocker in once who got shitfaced drunk and when he went to the bathroom,,, well let's just say he used hearing to detect when he was hitting the toilet.....



Reminds me of the blind piano tuner who did the same thing at my place. Unfortunately, his pitch was about as good as his aim.

Have a seat, pal.

DF

Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]   Go Up