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Author Topic: "Tommy" The Who  (Read 5360 times)

Lee Tyler

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"Tommy" The Who
« on: April 19, 2006, 08:38:33 pm »

  I just had a good listen of this album actually for the first time since 1969 FINALLY through some decent monitors and was wondering if any of you guys in the business could point me toward any production notes, trivia sites, etc. WOW! This album just "affects" me like no other. Nothing comes close... with the exception of "John Barleycorn Must Die" by Traffic.
 I have noted a few threads where backround information on other recordings/songs were rich in detail and fascinating. Can any of you guys point me in some sort of direction on the net that relates to either of these works? Thanks in advance!


LT
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archtop

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2006, 09:01:27 pm »

JJ is usually good for some "WHO" trivia.
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Lee Tyler

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2006, 06:14:33 pm »

archtop wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:01

JJ is usually good for some "WHO" trivia.


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Ronny

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2006, 06:38:19 pm »

Lee Tyler wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 18:14

archtop wrote on Wed, 19 April 2006 21:01

JJ is usually good for some "WHO" trivia.


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There were Broadway versions and of course the Tommy movie. You might find additional information by searching google with something like this

Tommy+movie+The Who+soundtrack+information

Tommy+broadway play+The Who+information.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you found stuff from these hits that you won't find relating to the audio only album.

BTW, if you haven't seen the movie, it's a must see and will give perspective to the audio only album. The opera made more sense to me after relating the songs to actors playing the roles. The story came into better view.
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2006, 03:32:19 am »

Ronny wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 17:38

BTW, if you haven't seen the movie, it's a must see and will give perspective to the audio only album.


That was one really weird abstract flick !

And I like the weird ones... saw it at the theater when it came out in '75?

Tina Turner was great as the Acid Queen!

"Who's Next" still one of my fave LPs.

JT
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Ronny

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2006, 12:12:01 pm »

Jerry Tubb wrote on Fri, 21 April 2006 03:32

Ronny wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 17:38

BTW, if you haven't seen the movie, it's a must see and will give perspective to the audio only album.


That was one really weird abstract flick !

And I like the weird ones... saw it at the theater when it came out in '75?

Tina Turner was great as the Acid Queen!

"Who's Next" still one of my fave LPs.

JT


Tina was perfect as the Acid Queen, the casting was exceptional I think. Clapton as the preacher was pretty cool too.

You probably remember Zachariah too, Jay Tee. It played the midnight movie circuit back around 1971. Billed as the first electric western, had John Rubenstein (Zachariah) and Don Johnson (Matthew), two young outlaws searching for their own identities. Country Joe and the Fish played an outlaw band. They'd set up at one end of a western town and play, the townsfolk would all go down to watch the band and Zachariah and Matthew would rob the bank. The James Gang with Joe Walsh were the Saloon's house band and Elvin Jones, a bad ass gunslinger,  played a killer drum solo in it. All elements of the film were from 1880's old west, but the guitars and basses were modern day electric. Pretty wild movie, I think I'll look for the DVD.
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Lee Tyler

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2006, 06:55:05 pm »

Thanks for all of the replies. My 14 year old is getting into this album and has a great appreciation for the musical value/continuity/relationship of the songs...and how they all fit into the whole scheme of "Tommy". Yes, the film does put things in some sort of perspective. And Tina?? The few times they zoomed in to her crazed, quivering lipped, slightly sped up cinematography, my son and I just cracked up.

I was....being a real "Tommy" purist, dissapointed with the music. The overuse of cheezy synths, lack of "balls" in most of the tunes, the great Oliver Reed's ..uh..."voice"....just some nitpicks. I had the pleasure of seeing "Tommy" on Broadway with Michael Cervaris. Yeah, baby. Talk about things done right. Brilliant staging and equally brilliant musical interpretation. Kicked ass. Brilliant imagery on of course one stage with props often doubled for different tasks....but done more cleverly than I have ever seen on the Broadway stage. Can't wait to see it again. Hah! No specific mastering credit on ArtistDirect. Guess the engineer, Damon Lyon-Shaw done it?

LT

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lord fear

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2006, 07:06:04 pm »

i work for the man, so i'll go fetch him...oh jj....
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J.J. Blair

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2006, 08:00:34 pm »

All I can tell you is that Kit Lambert, who was their manager, produced the record.  I know very little about the making of this record.  However, there is a great site that will tell you what instrument was played on what.

http://www.thewho.net/whotabs/equipment/index.htm

The person best qualified to ask is probably Brian Kehew.
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masterhse

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2006, 04:49:18 pm »

One piece of trivia that I heard was that either Lambert or Stamp had the original master tapes burned proclaiming that the first version of the album was a "masterpiece" and should remain unaltered. It made the second remaster of the album a bit more difficult.

Someone gave me a CD that they picked up with some of the orignal rough versions of the songs. Absolutely priceless. Really rather funny how the final album came out. Especially after hearing Pete play drums on some of the tracks.
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wwittman

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2006, 11:09:33 pm »

The engineer, Damon Lyon-Shaw at IBC did an outstanding job...although one gets the idea here and there that some songs got a lot more ATTENTION than others.

The Overture is SO brilliantly recorded anmd mixed that it sets up the whole rest of the record incredibly.
The end of the Overture, that is  STILL my favourite acoustic guitar recording EVER.

It's an unusual record for The Who, in that it's quite restrained and with more "normal" drums than usual (lots of actual straight beats with backbeats! not very Moonie, and he was vocal about not likeing it for that reason!)

In fact it's a strong record for Townshend and for the writing... but it's not at all like what they sounded like live, not at all a great record for Entwistle or Moon, or even for Roger (who's singing rather lightly and in falsetto a good deal)... yet all taken together it's a classic.

I love how so  much of the record has an electric guitar on one side doubled (loosely) by the acoustic on the other.
THAT's a technique I've "borrowed' many times.

if you never saw them play it live, on that original Tommy tour, you missed the best live rock band EVER.




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Lee Tyler

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2006, 12:02:59 pm »

Thanks Tom, Will and JJ for your posts. I actually have some live "Tommy" concerts on VHS that I snagged off "Pay Per View" through the years. I believe Phil Collins plays Uncle Ernie and Patti Labelle does the Acid Queen bit. I will have to view these in the coming weeks. Been quite a while. Entwistle's bass playing live is truly a sight to behold. Never quite heard weaving bass lines "sing" like his. Too bad he has left us. That goes for Moon as well. Just the dynamics alone of his playing and cymbal swells in that album are so perfect for the material. Can't help but be moved my the raw capture of Moon in the studio album.

LT

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wwittman

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2006, 02:33:00 pm »

When I say The Who live, I mean Townshend, Daltrey, Entwistle and Moon.
No more, no fewer.

The "deluxe" longer Live At Leeds record has the entire Tommy performance, and you can hear how incredible they could be... although without SEEING them you're missing 70% of the experience.

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Lee Tyler

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2006, 05:14:46 pm »

wwittman wrote on Sun, 23 April 2006 14:33

When I say The Who live, I mean Townshend, Daltrey, Entwistle and Moon.
No more, no fewer.

The "deluxe" longer Live At Leeds record has the entire Tommy performance, and you can hear how incredible they could be... although without SEEING them you're missing 70% of the experience.




Well, that particular album seems to have eluded me all these years, although I have heard about it through the years. I understand it was remastered. Hope they didn't kill it.  Rolling Eyes  Thanks!

LT
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masterhse

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2006, 05:23:40 pm »

wwittman wrote on Sun, 23 April 2006 14:33

When I say The Who live, I mean Townshend, Daltrey, Entwistle and Moon.
No more, no fewer.

The "deluxe" longer Live At Leeds record has the entire Tommy performance, and you can hear how incredible they could be... although without SEEING them you're missing 70% of the experience.




Closest thing to getting this today is watching their Isle of Wight DVD.

My first concert ever was the Who during their Who's Next tour. Not too shabby either. Watching The Who live in the early years was a "rock event". Quad was another great concert (the first one). In later years I mixed the Philly Quad concert for King Biscuit. Was kinda a religious experience for me.
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Ronny

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2006, 07:27:17 pm »



The thread sparked my re-interest in Tommy, so yesterday I bought the DVD and watched it last night. Ann-Margaret sure did a fine job as well. Her vocals are really good for the most part, only a couple places where I thought she could have done better. Moon as Uncle Ernie was the most humorous role and he was perfectly cast for that part. I'd forgotten that Jack Nicholson was also in the film, playing the doctor and Elton John as the dethroned Pinball King with the huge stacked boots was excellent for that role. I remember playing the Captain Fantastic Brown Dirt Cowboy pinball machine in the 70's that had Elton dressed like he was in the movie on the back panel. Great flick, I enjoyed this time as much as I did when I saw it on the big screen some 30 years or so ago.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2006, 10:14:41 pm »

The Maximum R&B DVD has some amazing footage of the band at their apex.

I posted the Who's Next demos for people to check out.

http://homepage.mac.com/jjblair/.Public/Lifehouse%20Demos.zi p

Warning, it's a 98 mb zip file.

Maybe I'll upload the Tommy demos later tonight if somebody says "please".
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

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"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Lee Tyler

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2006, 12:03:39 am »

http://www.orlyowl.com/please.jpg




....and thanks!   Very Happy

Lee
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wwittman

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2006, 03:24:51 am »

okay JJ, please

I heard the Pinball Wizard demo really early, before the record came out.
But I don't think I've ever heard any OTHER Tommy demos...

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masterhse

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2006, 12:02:39 pm »

Any and all demos of The Who or PT's solo work are greatly appreciated ...
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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2006, 02:07:15 pm »

Quote:



In later years I mixed the Philly Quad concert for King Biscuit. Was kinda a religious experience for me.




I've got a boot of that broadcast!  Thank you!  -E
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Eric Tischler

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2006, 02:12:22 pm »

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 03:14

The Maximum R&B DVD has some amazing footage of the band at their apex.



Absolutely.  After years of looking for a DVD release in the racks (I bought it on VHS when it came out), I poneyed up for a South American release that plays fine so, if anyone else is stymied by the lack of an American version, a South American one might take care of ya.  It's a GREAT disc.  -E
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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2006, 02:18:28 pm »

Ummm, there IS an American version of MR&B.  Were you thinking about The Kids Are Alright?  That came out last year on DVD.

Here's the link for the Tommy demos.

http://homepage.mac.com/jjblair/.Public/Tommy%20Demos.zip

59mb zip file.  It won't all probably be loaded until after 12:15 PM PST.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

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"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2006, 04:46:53 pm »

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 19:18

Ummm, there IS an American version of MR&B.  Were you thinking about The Kids Are Alright?  That came out last year on DVD.



Nope.  I got TKAA the day it came out Razz  I dunno; I searched for a US version of MRB for years and couldn't find one.  Doesn't mean it wasn't out there.  Anyhow, the South American (Brazil?) one works fine, so I just wanted to encourage anyone who was in the same boat I was.  -E
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Eric Tischler

Lee Tyler

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2006, 06:35:40 pm »

JJ,

Can't begin to thank you enough for posting this Who and Tommy stuff. Fascinating as can be from my perspective. As you might imagine, I have been prompted by your generosity to make reservations in Tommy's Holiday Camp.  Rolling Eyes  However, Uncle Ernie will be in the ajoining room. He makes me nervous.  Shocked

On a serious note, I see that these are "demos". Do you know if those Tommy demos are "sketches" just before they went into the studio??...or were they recorded well before they dived into the studio? And is that the late, great Nicky Hopkins playing the keys?
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masterhse

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2006, 09:25:59 pm »

hurricaneE wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 14:07

Quote:



In later years I mixed the Philly Quad concert for King Biscuit. Was kinda a religious experience for me.




I've got a boot of that broadcast!  Thank you!  -E


Glad you enjoyed it. KB was potentially going to release the concert as a CD, but The Who was going on tour with Quad II so it didn't make sense.

I've always liked the first tour more, especially the Quadraphonic  sound system. Probably one of the first "surround" concerts.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2006, 10:51:15 pm »

hurricaneE wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 11:07


I've got a boot of that broadcast!  Thank you!  -E


Well, post that shit, hombre!
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2006, 08:42:46 am »

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 22:51

hurricaneE wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 11:07


I've got a boot of that broadcast!  Thank you!  -E


Well, post that shit, hombre!


I believe there are legal issues with that, especially in a public forum.

You can get a taste of it here (see Won't Get Fooled Again):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000DBT4/sr=1-33/qid=1145 967976/ref=sr_1_33/103-9023657-3475810?%5Fencoding=UTF8& s=music

I was never really keen on how this track on the CD was mastered, and prefer the live radio concert over the CD though. It would have been very cool if they put this out.  
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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2006, 02:18:23 pm »

masterhse wrote on Tue, 25 April 2006 13:42

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 22:51

hurricaneE wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 11:07


I've got a boot of that broadcast!  Thank you!  -E


Well, post that shit, hombre!


I believe there are legal issues with that, especially in a public forum.

You can get a taste of it here (see Won't Get Fooled Again):

 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00000DBT4/sr=1-33/qid=1145  967976/ref=sr_1_33/103-9023657-3475810?%5Fencoding=UTF8& s=music

I was never really keen on how this track on the CD was mastered, and prefer the live radio concert over the CD though. It would have been very cool if they put this out.  



>phew!<  Glad I have an out; I don't know how to post stuff--I can barely turn my computer on.  JJ, if you have a mailing address, I could send you a care package. PM me.  

Does anybody know if Musician's interview with Glyn Johns from 15+ years ago is available anywhere?  -E
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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2006, 09:55:49 pm »

masterhse wrote on Tue, 25 April 2006 08:42

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 22:51

hurricaneE wrote on Mon, 24 April 2006 11:07


I've got a boot of that broadcast!  Thank you!  -E


Well, post that shit, hombre!


I believe there are legal issues with that, especially in a public forum.

 




Absolutely. This is a business where client trust is at the top of the list. My clients are real picky about their material getting leaked before "they" release it. If you make copyright material available on a public forum, even if it's been released a long time ago, you aren't showing the trust that a client requires "and deserves". How do your clients know that you won't distribute their material, if you'll openly infringe upon someone else's right to control their own distribution?

The fact that it's a bootleg makes it that much worse, IMHO. It wasn't recorded legally in the first place, so the rightful owners are getting screwed from the get go. By supporting bootlegs you are a part of the problem and not a part of the solution and people wonder why the price of cd's has gone up so much.
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masterhse

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2006, 01:51:01 pm »

Ronny wrote on Tue, 25 April 2006 21:55


The fact that it's a bootleg makes it that much worse, IMHO. It wasn't recorded legally in the first place, so the rightful owners are getting screwed from the get go. By supporting bootlegs you are a part of the problem and not a part of the solution and people wonder why the price of cd's has gone up so much.


I agree Ronny, in this case though the concert (other than the song Won't Get Fooled Again) is not available publicly other than as a radio show. It's a shame that some of these concerts won't be heard or available by a large majority of the public.

That last that I spoke with a representative for KB they were well aware of people actually selling CDs of the concerts on Ebay and made efforts to stop that from happening. As far as people swapping stuff, I would guess that it's far more difficult and in some ways may help to promote the show.

BTW for Who fans KB also has a full John Entwhistle concert available (I'm starting to sound like a salesman). Other than giving them a rough mix, I wasn't involved with that one though. I met John backstage in Philly during the Quad II tour. He was was very nice. I miss him.
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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2006, 03:47:22 pm »

 
Quote:


The fact that it's a bootleg makes it that much worse, IMHO. It wasn't recorded legally in the first place, so the rightful owners are getting screwed from the get go. By supporting bootlegs you are a part of the problem and not a part of the solution and people wonder why the price of cd's has gone up so much.


I would much rather buy a legitimate copy, secure in the knowledge that a) Pete, Roger et al. are getting my money and b) Universal or whoever, knows that if they produce Who product, it'll get bought.  If a legit copy comes out, I'll buy it.  Until then, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to hear a live performance of my favorite album by my favorite band, esp. when I've bought so many (legit) versions of that album already, to say nothing of how much I've spent on Who (and Pete) catalog.  -E
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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2006, 07:16:13 pm »

Back to the Tommy Demo that the link provides, who in the heck is singing on this tune "We're Not Gonna Take It"?. I can't recognize anyone.  Shocked  Is that Roger and/or Pete?  Who in the world is that singing? The Moon man??? LOL Totally freaked listening to this stuff, by the way. I am beside myself and in some weird kind of alternate/BIZARRO "Tommy" heaven, where all things JUST do not seem to be normal/right...and I am loving it. LOL.

Secondary kudo's and a big booyah to JJ for his generosity in providing that link.

Lee
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masterhse

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2006, 07:26:51 am »

Lee Tyler wrote on Wed, 26 April 2006 19:16

Back to the Tommy Demo that the link provides, who in the heck is singing on this tune "We're Not Gonna Take It"?. I can't recognize anyone.  Shocked  Is that Roger and/or Pete?  



Sounds like a young Pete to me (on all parts).
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Tom Volpicelli
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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2006, 11:17:08 pm »

Well I suppose I can contribute a story involving the remastering of Quadraphenia.
In 1995 I attended a mastering session for a band I produced that took place at Gateway with Bob Ludwig.  When I went upstairs to use the men's room I heard Quadraphenia being scrubbed around.  Bob explained that Jon Astley (a mastering engineer from Britian who had Produced and engineered about half of the original Who records (not Tommy though) was upstairs remastering Quadraphenia.  

Sure enough we ended up having lunch together and he shared various Glyn Johns stories, and Who stories ....   pretty cool for my 26 yr old years.  Nice chap.
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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2006, 03:21:06 am »

And I believe Pete's brother in law.

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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2006, 11:07:03 pm »

Thanks for all of the info and links for Tommy stuff, you guys. You made my April!


LT
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Re: "Tommy" The Who
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2006, 10:53:25 am »

Does anybody have further info on this?

 http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/press_releases/current/live_at_l eeds.htm

There gots to be a Live at Leeds II CD in the works ...
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