Jerry Tubb wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 14:41 |
The Watcher wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 10:09 | All The Mastering guys here and no one can tell me why a program is doing what its doing? Not even a guess?
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Matt
The Answer is: You are simply getting too Clip Happy here!
No Big Mystery... you've painted yourself into a corner, find another approach.
You're asking WaveBurner to do something it's not designed to do.
It's not the answer you want, but that's it.
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First off. Yes I understand that I might be asking Waveburner to do somthing It is not intended to do. This is why I asked the question here in the first place. I know for a fact the some "ME'S" clip a few db here and there. I dont feel I was clip happy cauze I CAN hear distortion. I DO have ears. My problem was that What I was hearing was not translating to CD after a bounce. I wanted to know what other waveburner users had experienced before I spent the whole day redoing the thing I was working on. Others answered that something was wrong with the program and you were VERY helpfull with the troubleshooting thred. I was searching for that and had not found it.
As all of us are audio professionals. If you were working on a master and it sounded how you wanted it, then did an offline bounce and it cameback even a little different sounding WE ALL should be calling bullshit on that program. A bounce should PHASE NULL against the original files. End of story.
Jerry Tubb wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 14:41 |
My Guess:
In WBs "bounce to disk" the internal math is overloading, when it's "dithering" and reducing from 24-bit to 16-bit, because of the clipping you've added, with the "gain line" in WB.
The Tascam CD burner is probably truncating from 24-bit to 16-bit, so it writes to CD-R just fine.
You might try turning the WBs dithering "off" and truncating on the bounce instead... although that wouldn't be my choice.
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Dig this. I turned it ON (remember I am NOT a Mastering Eengineer I am a Mix Engineer. I dithered the files b4 i went to waveburner cauze I didnt know where the dither was located. "Preferences" is a lame place to hide that.)
With the dither turned on all is well. The cd burned from WB sounding EXACTILY as I heard it while working. I contacted apple about this and they told me to reinstall the software. Any Other advice was going o cost 250.00. I may reinstall later, but as of now i can push the track 10 db ito clipping and the bounce is all good. It sounds like caca, but the digital noise is gone.
Jerry Tubb wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 14:41 |
Back in the Olden Tymes of digital, before 24-bit was common, we wouldn't dare even go near clipping (at least not much) for fear of overloading and suffering the horribly distorted audio result.
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You must think im 8 years old. I dont need a lecture about olden time, I was there. Plus its not even remotly true. As Digital came up in this biz I saw many major engineers at major studios clip every kick and snare to dat on thier final mix print that went to mastering. That clipping did not sound bad. I dont feel that I would have done that, but it did not make any of those records not become a hit. The mastering engineers never called and said reprint.
Jerry Tubb wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 14:41 |
The reason you're not getting a lot of feedback on the complicated question you're asking is simple. When MEs read the scenario, their reaction is "whoah the guy is clipping all over the place, and he wants to know WHY it's distorting".
Kinda disqualifies it as a legitimate question.
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I know its "CLIPPING" I can hear that. I want that. Thats the whole point. What I was getting was HARD Whiteniose sounding DISTORTION. Not clipping.
I also didnt know there a planel of judges deciding if my question was legitimate or not. Its allways good to know Im being judged.
Jerry Tubb wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 14:41 |
You're gonna have to find another solution... like a limiter with an absolute ceiling to prevent overflow.
Fair Enough?
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No. All I wanted to know was if this was a problem that other waveburner users had experienced. Typicaly I dont ask people on the internet for anything. I wouldent have posted here but I spoke with Brad and he said there were many WB users on his forum so I thought maybe some nice ME will help me.
Look at the quote you used from me.
The Watcher wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 10:09 |
All The Mastering guys here and no one can tell me why a program is doing what its doing? Not even a guess?
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I didnt ask for other solutions. I just wanted 2 know if anyone understood what my problem was.
Please dot get me twisted here tho. I am not trying to start a fight. JDG simply posted what I asked for. Some with Ecue, Waveburner should not behave this way and somthing is wrong. You posted a trubleshooting thread that was helpfull, altho not the culpret and I think yo for that. I relize this clipping the masters thing is a really touchy subject for yall. Hey I hear ya, I loath when a client tells me to put an L2 across my mix cauze they like how it sounds in the PTLE rig at home. I just need to be able to hear what might happen downstream before I can be happy with the mix. Plus then thiers clearchannel compression that I have to think about too. Its damn hard to avoid problems nowadays. I want my product to sound how I want it to sound. I dont want it to sound crappy on the radio. Mixing with all that in mind is the only way to work in this day and age.
Thank you everyone for you time. Everything seems to be working fine now.
Dither
Crazy.
Matt