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[Samc]

You could try this all analog, console/monitor control unit from ADT:
 http://www.adt-audio.com/UsProducts/Director/DirectorMainPag e.html

It's modular, with Loads of functions, connectivity and routing, ergonomically, it stays out of your way and it sounds really good.  Or you could ask them to assemble for you, your very own custom, surround console/controller from their Integrator or V700 modules. They'll do what you want, and probably for less than some of the generic, off the shelf systems.

Whichever way you decide to go, I'm sure it will go well with these purpose built surround processors:
 http://www.adt-audio.com/UsProducts/RackMount/RackMountMain/ RackMountMain.html

[Yannick Willox]

The Gracedesign m906 is missing in this list.

http://www.gracedesign.com/products/m906/m906.htm
Didn't hear one, but if the quality is on the same level as the mic preamps, it should be great.
It's an analogue unit, but has multichannel DACs.

[Andy Krehm]

jazzius wrote on Thu, 30 March 2006 01:04

Avocet here - very happy with it - it's a lot of controller for the money. One thing you should know....everytime you turn the volume control you get a loud (in mastering room terms) click from the relays inside the 19" box. If you can't situate the 19" in a seperate machine room (i have) , you might be disturbed by this! The Avocet also doesn't have a digital output to attach your digital meter to - so your digital metering won't always match what you're hearing (in terms of your digital source selection) - i sent 3 emails to Cranesong asking if it could be modded (one to Scott, one to Dave and one thru my distributer) with no reply.......thanks for the fantastic customer support Cranesong!   - it's funny how people seem much less inclined to answer 'mails after they've got your money. Darius

We compared the Dangerous ST (& SR) to the Avocet and discovered two "problems".

One is, for surround work, you need three units, which makes it very pricey. Of course with an analog unit, you need extra channels of conversion, which the Avocet has built in, but you are locked in to the Cranesong converters. Again, I see that most folks are happy with Cranesong conversion but you would be married to it.

We don't do surround yet but liked the fact that the Dangerous ST could be bought by itself and that one could later add the SR (which covers the rest of the channels) for a relatively low cost, if we ever decided that surround could be viable for us.

The second problem, at least in stereo mode, is that one cannot mute the sub or the mains independently. Now I realize that many MEs listen never listen to their speakers separately but I do, as it sometimes helps me balance track to track better, and so we called David Hill to see if a mod could be done.

He kindly looked in to it but said it would be a programming nightmare and suggested an on and off switch between the sub and the main. I ended up getting stereo subs so my problem with the Avocet would be double and just the thought of a switch like that after spending 10 grand on monitoring pushed me into the Dangerous camp.

BTW, the Dangerous ST also uses relays, which click when you move the volume control, and so if that bothers you, the rack mounted unit has to be moved into the machine room. I personally got used to it really fast and like to use the headphone out on it so it may not be practical to move out of reach anyway.

Andy,

Silverbirch Productions

[zetterstroem]

brett wrote on Thu, 30 March 2006 08:06

zetterstroem wrote on Wed, 29 March 2006 21:20 if it fades in the digital domain (and i think it does) then stay away from it........ imo volume is best done in the analog domain..... we've discussed it a million times here...... i recommend this: http://dact.com/html/attenuators.html put it in a box and attach a knob.... and connect it to a good multichannel D/A Sent them an e-mail for a price qoute. So, how do you wire xlr ins and outs to these things? i want to build a 6 channel. So I need a small case.  I am confused how you connect three pins from the xlr, when there are only three on the attnuator. Most likely in, out and ground? So what pins on the xlr would go to what on teh atenuator?

there's two possibilities...

1. use some form of transformer (eg. lundahl) or active circuit to convert to unbalanced inside the box and then into the attenuator....

2. or (the ultimate solution) use two 6-deck attenuators.... one for L-C-R and one for SL-SR-sub....

of course this is a bit more difficult than buying a tascam..... but the sound will be awesome.....

[Thomas W. Bethel]

Yannick Willox wrote on Thu, 30 March 2006 06:09

The Gracedesign m906 is missing in this list. http://www.gracedesign.com/products/m906/m906.htm Didn't hear one, but if the quality is on the same level as the mic preamps, it should be great. It's an analogue unit, but has multichannel DACs.

The local college bought one of these for their audio department and they are very pleased with the unit. It does what it does what it does very well and you can see and hear the quality of the unit. If I were getting into surround I would seriously consider this unit.

[turtletone]

I have the Tascam DSM7.1 controller.
For surround monitoring, it's a good unit. I wouldn't
Use it for stereo through. But if you have a Stereo
unit already and just want to add surround monitoring
and don't want to spend a boat load, it's very powerful
and flexible.
The contoller isn't built very durably, In fact the
volume knob on mine has already snapped off and glued
back on. But it doesn't get used much so it's not a
huge concern. I bought it when it first came out about
5 or so years ago. Don't buy an old unit. There is a
bug in it. Tascam replaced mine. It's all digitally
routed in the unit, but it sounds good. I don't know
that I would buy it again these days being that there
are many more options now.

[crna59]

I have the Grace m906 and would say it's comparable to the Avocet in Stereo. I had the Avocet before I upgraded to surround and wanted to make sure the Grace was up to par in stereo before I let go of the Avocet.

Regards,

[seriousfun]

TotalSonic wrote on Wed, 29 March 2006 22:41

... One other solution no one has mentioned here is the MultiMax from Martin Sound - http://www.martinsound.com/pd_mmu.htm ...

Thanks for the inclusion.

If anyone has any questions, I'll be glad to answer.

[Jerry Tubb]

TotalSonic wrote on Thu, 30 March 2006 00:41

and the third (SPL) relatively cheap - http://www.spl-usa.com/smc/smc_E.html I've never heard any of them (I'm just using a stereo Coleman M3PHmkII here) so I have no idea whether they are good or not (although I'd figure if the MMC1 is good enough for folks like Gateway and Galaxy who can afford to get anything - then it's probably not too shabby).

Been using the budget SPL 2489 unit here for surround... sounds great, works like a dream... also will do stereo, very tidy little box. Limited I/O is the main drawback.

Also heard good things about the Coleman.

cheers

[Garrett H]

jazzius wrote on Thu, 30 March 2006 01:04

The Avocet also doesn't have a digital output to attach your digital meter to - Darius

You are not the only one to talk to them about this and I would bet $1 that something is in the works.  Crane Song is well known for incorporating user feedback into production models (as fast as a small company could).

Best,
GH

[Garrett H]

Andy Krehm wrote on Thu, 30 March 2006 09:25

We compared the Dangerous ST (& SR) to the Avocet and discovered two "problems". One is, for surround work, you need three units, which makes it very pricey. . . .The second problem, at least in stereo mode, is that one cannot mute the sub or the mains independently. Andy, Silverbirch Productions

Yes, you need to buy two more core units, but they are cheaper than the first Avocet because you don't need to buy the remote.  I don't know about the converters in the Dangerous, but the Crane Song converters are up there with Lavry, IMO.  However, your point about the Dangerous being one purchase for stereo and 5.1 is well taken.

Second, what do you use for a cross over?  On my Bryston you can mute the mains and listen to the subs.  It's a switch on the front of the panel.  If you had that in your mastering rack you could do that without getting up and walkiing across the room every time you wanted to do that.   I don't know how sturdy the switches are (meaning they probably are cool for doing a few mutes a week, but as many times as you need to mute during a session -- it could reak havoc on the switches.)  So, maybe my idea isn't too practical.

If you master better by soloing the subs, then you have every right to want a controller that does that.  The more I read this thread the more I realize how difficult it must be to design one of these controllers in the first place!

Trevor has the Grace.  Hopefully he can talk about his experiences with it.

[Roland Storch]

The Grace 906 sounds good, meaning has almoast no sound of its own - very transparent - and offers a lot of features, including the great internal DAC.

The EMM Labs Switchman is analog only, alos very transparent but with a lower price than the Grace.
http://www.emmlabs.com/MKII.html

[Andy Krehm]

Garrett H wrote on Thu, 30 March 2006 14:39

Andy Krehm wrote on Thu, 30 March 2006 09:25 We compared the Dangerous ST (& SR) to the Avocet and discovered two "problems". One is, for surround work, you need three units, which makes it very pricey. . . .The second problem, at least in stereo mode, is that one cannot mute the sub or the mains independently. Andy, Silverbirch Productions Yes, you need to buy two more core units, but they are cheaper than the first Avocet because you don't need to buy the remote.  I don't know about the converters in the Dangerous, but the Crane Song converters are up there with Lavry, IMO.  However, your point about the Dangerous being one purchase for stereo and 5.1 is well taken. Second, what do you use for a cross over?  On my Bryston you can mute the mains and listen to the subs.  It's a switch on the front of the panel. .. If you master better by soloing the subs, then you have every right to want a controller that does that.  The more I read this thread the more I realize how difficult it must be to design one of these controllers in the first place!

Thanks for clearing up my misunderstanding about the 2nd and 3rd Avocet being less expensive b/c no controller is required.

The Dangerous ST is analog which is why I mentioned that it leaves converter options open but again, I never seen anyone trash a Cranesong converter on this webboard!

My speaker setup is Lipinski 505s running straight to a Bryston SST 3B. They are mated to 2 Velodyne DD-10 subs by carefully tuning both sub's internal eq and cross-overs to meet the Lipinski's natural roll-off. The Bryston and the powered subs are plugged into separate inputs in the Dangerous ST and so listening to the mains or sub is simply a matter of muting one or the other.

After owning 3 Presonus Central Stations (under warranty), I think its probably safe to say any of the units mentioned in this post would have been a big improvement. I think the choice of controllers would be more to do with what features one needs and of course, price.

Andy

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