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Author Topic: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs  (Read 2489 times)

lagerfeldt

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Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« on: March 28, 2006, 02:22:07 pm »

JT, you're on WaveBurner/Logic right? Or anybody else in WB.

I was just playing around today during a mastering session. After a series of processes, the end of the chain had an L2.

I followed the L2 by clipping using the fader/volume, 1 dB of clipping. Sounds fine.

I then remember there is a hidden option in the standard compressor, if you press the button with the binary numbers on (in the upper left corner). We all realise this compressor is not a compressor for mastering of couse.

However, it has a hidden clipping function that can be switched between off/soft/hard/clip.

Try turning off everything in the compressor (threshold up, ratio 1:1, auto gain off, knee to hard, attack slow, release fast, makegain at 0 dB), and enable straight CLIP in the hidden menu.

Then clip using the compressor make up. Can only be set on 0.5, 0.9, 1.5, etc.

In my opinion it sounds somewhat better than the standard clipping procedure. The low end is more clear, and clarity seems to be better overall. I'd say the difference may be as little as 5 - 10% locally (just evaluating the clipping) but nevertheless better. I also tried comparing to other forms of clipping/crushing using plug-ins - beat them all.

Check it out and let me know. I don't know why this is so, but I believe I've stumbled unto something good, although it might only be a very small improvement.

Pingu

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Re: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2006, 02:40:48 pm »

Thanks for the tip man.

I will give it a shot.


Quote:

by clipping using the fader/volume, 1 dB of clipping. Sounds fine.



I'm curious about this.
How often do you practice this. Is this what you refer to as clipping the converters?


I have thought about this often but have never committed a master to it as i thought it to be theoretically wrong, so i didn't do it.

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lagerfeldt

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Re: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2006, 05:10:40 pm »

Well, I don't always use clipping - it depends on what I'm going for.

But in most cases on the types of music I encounter (rnb/pop/dance/remixes), 1 dB of clipping isn't going to ruin anybody's day. Well, not mine at least - and haven't heard any complaints.

A client today requested that I be creative, and that I had free hands to do what I wanted, so I went for a grungey slightly distorted truncated (yes) 16 bit file with clipping. Sounded just f*cking right for the job although I in theory broke three "rules" on that track.

I used to clip the A/D but until I get a Lavry, I going for an L2+clip combo for the time being.

Pingu

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Re: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2006, 05:23:00 pm »

lagerfeldt wrote on Wed, 29 March 2006 06:10

Well, I don't always use clipping - it depends on what I'm going for.

But in most cases on the types of music I encounter (rnb/pop/dance/remixes), 1 dB of clipping isn't going to ruin anybody's day. Well, not mine at least - and haven't heard any complaints.

A client today requested that I be creative, and that I had free hands to do what I wanted, so I went for a grungey slightly distorted truncated (yes) 16 bit file with clipping. Sounded just f*cking right for the job although I in theory broke three "rules" on that track.

I used to clip the A/D but until I get a Lavry, I going for an L2+clip combo for the time being.




So you clip and then how do you capture?
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lagerfeldt

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Re: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2006, 05:46:59 pm »

Like I said, I don't clip my A/D anymore. Maybe I'll take it up when I get the Lavry. In that case it's simply a matter of feeding the A/D enough to make it clip. And then don't touch the signal apart from perhaps fading, and dithering.

But today:

When I come back from analog (Gyraf, SSL) I go into the Benchmark ADC in 24 bits. From there I might do just a touch of additional EQ if necessary, and then into the L2, and then perhaps clipping.

That's it.

Ed Littman

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Re: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2006, 08:19:42 pm »

lagerfeldt wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 17:10

Well,
I used to clip the A/D but until I get a Lavry, I going for an L2+clip combo for the time being.



I could only imagine it would even sound better without the l2.
if clipping why use the l2?
Ed
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tweakman

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Re: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2006, 01:07:59 am »

  Tried it on LogicPro 7.1
I like what it does to the bass in the "hard" setting.
on the "soft" setting it seemed the hi end distorted easily.
Nice hidden feature. Thanks for the tip.

PD: there are no binary numbers in the upper left corner in Waveburner (or at least I couldn't find it) I  think it's a logic only feature.
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lagerfeldt

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Re: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2006, 01:27:16 am »

tweakman wrote on Wed, 29 March 2006 08:07

  Tried it on LogicPro 7.1
I like what it does to the bass in the "hard" setting.
on the "soft" setting it seemed the hi end distorted easily.
Nice hidden feature. Thanks for the tip.

PD: there are no binary numbers in the upper left corner in Waveburner (or at least I couldn't find it) I  think it's a logic only feature.



I'm talking about the plug-in, not the platform.

I only tested the pure CLIP function, not the hard og soft settings as they added too much coloration. Might work on somethings though.

Jerry Tubb

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Re: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2006, 02:28:55 am »

lagerfeldt wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 13:22

JT, you're on WaveBurner/Logic right? Or anybody else in WB. (snip) Check it out and let me know. I don't know why this is so, but I believe I've stumbled unto something good, although it might only be a very small improvement.


Yes Holger I'm on WaveBurner but I haven't really used the plug-ins on it... other than the Goniometer for eye candy. I'm slammed for a few days, so I won't be able to check it out or a few days. But thanks for the tip.

Cheers
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Bobro

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Re: Stumbled upon a nice discovery in WaveBurner/Logic plugs
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2006, 02:55:39 am »

IMO limiting and/or soft-clipping a submix, and a touch of parallel compression, is very transparent.

For soft clipping I do something noone else would be foolish enough to do- render a submix and put it in CSound as an oscillator, read with cubic interpolation, and run it through a soft-clipping opcode.

Takes a long time but it has a soft brown slightly crunchy sound, somehow reminiscent of the kind of clipping you'd get in say an early EMU sampler.

Limiting with the Voxengo Elephant is more transparent but sometimes clipping is more appropriate.

-Bobro  
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