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Author Topic: A mastering shoot out....  (Read 9184 times)

Riccardo

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2006, 03:18:29 PM »

jazzius wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 17:52

I usually refuse to do test masters (for free)..i just show them a link to my credits webpage......i mean, you don't walk into a restaurant and ask if you can try a starter for free do you?

Like someone already said, it's usually the inexperienced people with crap product that ask for it. really, how can you judge how an album will come out based on one song? - ludicrous!

I did do one a while back 'cause i knew it would lead to many album jobs if successful (it has  Very Happy )

Darius



I agree 100% with Darius. I have probably done 3 or 4 "appetisers" in the last  5 years for clients who have then come back. They came through other clients anyway.
Whoever whispers the word "shootout" is shown the door.....

bblackwood

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2006, 03:21:25 PM »

IME they are not uncommon at all, especially on major label gigs. I don't mind them (or test masters) as it takes little time to cut one track and gives the band/label/whoever a better perspective of what I can do for their project.
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

Ronny

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2006, 03:42:42 PM »


I don't master songs for free. I don't do shootouts. 99% of my biz is word of mouth, most clients pay full in advance, although I only require a 50% deposit of the projected cost before I start. Ads in Mix mag don't do squat for generating work, great for getting resume's. You want to find a good intern, put a mastering services ad in one of the trade mags, but don't expect to get much work from it. My website gets lots of hits, but maybe 1 out of 500 actually follow through with a project. Yep, it's all word of mouth. Your best business card is the last cd that you mastered.

I wonder how many PC recording jockey's, send out 10 different songs to 10 me's for their demonstration, or tell them it's a shootout and try to put them all on the final cd. It's a funny thought but certainly a few have attempted this. It's always the people that want something for free that aren't worth messing with in the first place. Producers that know their stuff, band alpha members, self producing bands and even home recordists that put out decent material, never ask for a freebie. It's a red flag, if they don't want to pay for the best mastering than it's very likely that their material is less than good anyway. The last place you want to cut corners on a cd production is the mastering. You get what you pay for in the real world.  
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------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
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Pingu

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2006, 03:55:54 PM »

Thats interesting Ronny.

Ive often wondered how you guys build up your rep so much so that you make a living off it.

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bblackwood

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2006, 04:13:20 PM »

Ronny wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 14:42

I wonder how many PC recording jockey's, send out 10 different songs to 10 me's for their demonstration, or tell them it's a shootout and try to put them all on the final cd.

You could always fade it early if you needed to, but again, quite a few of the major label gigs I get are from shoot outs. To each his own - I'm not going through life expecting that each client is trying to get something for nothing...

Quote:

It's always the people that want something for free that aren't worth messing with in the first place.  

Horrible generalization - some of the finest artists I have ever had the privilege of working with came from free/cheap test masters...
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Brad Blackwood
euphonic masters

carlsaff

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2006, 04:18:33 PM »

Brad is summing up my perspective on the matter perfectly.

Pingu

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2006, 04:21:50 PM »

As he always does.  Cool
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dcollins

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2006, 07:54:06 PM »

My recommendation would be to master the entire track, not a snippet, for free.  Do the same job as you would for any client.

Simple as that.

I hope no one seriously believes that a guy gets his record mastered for free by shopping 10 tracks to 10 engineers!

DC

Ronny

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2006, 08:22:19 PM »

bblackwood wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 16:13

Ronny wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 14:42

I wonder how many PC recording jockey's, send out 10 different songs to 10 me's for their demonstration, or tell them it's a shootout and try to put them all on the final cd.

You could always fade it early if you needed to, but again, quite a few of the major label gigs I get are from shoot outs. To each his own - I'm not going through life expecting that each client is trying to get something for nothing...

Quote:

It's always the people that want something for free that aren't worth messing with in the first place.  

Horrible generalization - some of the finest artists I have ever had the privilege of working with came from free/cheap test masters...



If you get the job, then your demo wasn't free and I understand why you demo your work on a particular project, to try to aquire work. However, some of the finest artists I know are some of the cheapest people I know. Talent or the lack of it, has nothing to with being cheap and I didn't mean for my comment to be taken that way. I'm talking about the low budget people that want something for free. The same people that try to finagle you down on your price, many who expect you to perform miracles on their less than stellar mixes. The same people that Tom Bethel seems to run into more often than I. Typically the newbie. Getting the red flag.  

Demo'ing one song that's going to be on a cd with 15 give or take other tunes, does not paint a very good picture of the final project. If I were to hire you to master my cd, rather than send you one or two songs, I'd listen to your past work and get a better interpretation of how you master a cd, not a song. Anyway, I'm not knocking anyone for participating in shootouts, if you have the time to do them and it gets you more work, that is good.        
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------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
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Ben F

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2006, 08:23:26 PM »

I usually invite the client to come in and and I demonstrate what can be done, and also discuss aspects of thier mix that would improve mastering. Most apreciate this honesty and come back.

If they want a copy then it's only ever one track.

I think a 'shoutout' is difficult for the client because most decent engineers will simply not work for free, so you're generally up against less experienced people anyway.
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Ronny

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2006, 08:27:47 PM »

dcollins wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 19:54

My recommendation would be to master the entire track, not a snippet, for free.  Do the same job as you would for any client.

Simple as that.

I hope no one seriously believes that a guy gets his record mastered for free by shopping 10 tracks to 10 engineers!

DC




Wasn't there an Ed Littman thread about this very thing?


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------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
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----------Powered By Experience-------------
-------------Driven To Perfection---------------

Ed Littman

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2006, 08:32:24 PM »

Pingu wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 11:38

Another time i got an Vietnamese version of a backstreet boys song.
meaning they grabbed an mp3 backing track and sung in Vietnamese over the top. It was shocking.





COOL Cool
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jtr

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2006, 09:23:55 PM »

The difference between Brad's and Ronny's posts show just how much
we all adjust to our specific markets, whether it be region, price
range or genre.  


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dcollins

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2006, 10:15:27 PM »

jtr wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 18:23

The difference between Brad's and Ronny's posts show just how much
we all adjust to our specific markets, whether it be region, price
range or genre.  



I guess.  As a potential client, I would be insulted by requests for deposits or other "up-front" money, as it seems like you don't trust me and we haven't even met!

But that's just me.

DC

Ed Littman

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Re: A mastering shoot out....
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2006, 10:25:14 PM »

Ronny wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 20:27

dcollins wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 19:54

My recommendation would be to master the entire track, not a snippet, for free.  Do the same job as you would for any client.

Simple as that.

I hope no one seriously believes that a guy gets his record mastered for free by shopping 10 tracks to 10 engineers!

DC




Wasn't there an Ed Littman thread about this very thing?





Hi Ronny,
I just noticed your comment......
although i would not offer a wole track for free unless the caliber of the potential client was more reputable then most that ask, my other thread had nothing to do with this. in that case the work was already done.....
ed
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