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Author Topic: How to capture the resonance of a voice?  (Read 6258 times)

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Re: How to capture the resonance of a voice?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2006, 05:23:28 PM »

maxdimario wrote on Tue, 14 March 2006 22:09
Quote:

the ideal mic and preamp, to capture a voice realistically would need to have no 'dynamic signature' on any frequency.

often though, a little bit of resonance in the high end is desireable because of the inherent limitations of both the signal chain from mic to finished master and subsequently cd and home stereo.


And how does a common gear purchaser like me find out whether or not or a particular mic / preamp has a 'dynamic signature'?

For example the tech-specs given at microphone-data or some flyers of mic manufacturers say nothing about it? Am I missing some fine-print or not being understand the specs properly?
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nirguni

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Re: How to capture the resonance of a voice?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2006, 08:01:48 PM »

This is such a learning curve for me! Your divergent views and rich experience make for an enriching dialogue... Many thanks to all of u!

Tao, u too? Ok great. Let me tell others here that Tao personally has heard (actual voice & recordings) what I am talking about

Is 'this' the right forum for this?

1. Martin, I was in two minds whether to post here or on Klaus Heyne's forum. Since my questions concerned the entire signal chain & theory - I posted it here. But as u rightly suggest, for any detailed discussion on mics only I will post there later.

2. Martin Kantola wrote on Tue, 14 March 2006 14:50
Quote:

nirguni wrote on Tue, 14 March 2006 00:40


and yes as u probably know, there are a few more resonators... five as per modern research 1. chest & stomach 2. throat itself 3. mouth 4. nose 5. forehead  
(there are other ways of looking at resonance though... oh, oh, let me not get started Smile)


No please go on, this is why I find discussing this with you so interesting!


I would love to discuss the theories / concepts related to the speaking voice, voice production and listening (from a practitioner & trainer's artistic / psychological / even metaphysical outlook)  Very Happy ... but not sure if this is the right place...

I think scientific facts and some theory about voice production must be of some use to all - producers, engineers, gear developers... but then most of it must already be known to people here.

The personal & alternative theories / concepts / experience... are they relevant here? how much? I am not sure. That's why my hesitation... You, Romy the Cat & the others tell me - here or elsewhere?

Remember?
Quote:

I could go on and on about the voice concepts but will restrain myself for the moment. Maybe later I could start a thread about the theories of voice & sound (if Dan Lavry finds it in accordance with the aims of this forum) and also perhaps a collaborative article / post... on voice properties / concepts and technical engineering aspects


3. Martin Kantola wrote on Tue, 14 March 2006 14:50
Quote:

I consider Indian vocal styles to be absolutely fantastic, so musically and technically advanced.


Cheers!!! I love it. Please Tell me about a forum to discuss musical theories & genres?  

Meanwhile about EQ
Personally speaking... I like a recording best when I don't have to EQ it at all. Of course, if needed we are not scared to EQ something back in...

EQ is fine for a desired effect BUT if the voice needs EQ for realism, then either my voice talent has to go back and re-train... or the sound engineer has to get some act together.

do keep contributing with ALL your views...  about "the entire ceremony of sound recording & sound reproduction".

regards
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Yannick Willox

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Re: How to capture the resonance of a voice?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2006, 04:46:58 AM »

>> 3. Resonance

While a big part of succesfully capturing this "resonance" lies in the ultimate transparancy of the entire record/playback chain (having heard a few of my own recordings on a new prototype two-way horn loaded system proved very interesting), I should add my view:

I think our brain can be fooled in hearing a wide/deep soundstage, played back on two loudspeakers. However, the keyword is fooled. When it comes to a voice - a voice which we are hearing in real life for 10,000s of years - we can't be fooled so easily. I'm convinced a big part of the texture and realism comes from the 360deg soundfield, full of early reflections. Our ear may be limited to a 20K/24 bit band-bitwidth, but its temporal resolution must be quite impressive (very much unlike the eye).

So, to answer the question of the thread: one can only try ?
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Yannick Willox
Acoustic Recording Service

Romy The Cat

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Re: How to capture the resonance of a voice?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2006, 06:04:57 AM »

Yannick Willox wrote on Wed, 15 March 2006 09:46

...ultimate transparancy of the entire record/playback chain (having heard a few of my own recordings on a new prototype two-way horn loaded system proved very interesting)...

Two-way horn loaded  with "ultimate" transparancy? Imposable!

Rgs,
Romy The Cat

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maxdimario

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Re: How to capture the resonance of a voice?
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2006, 07:06:52 AM »

tao_teh_ching wrote on Tue, 14 March 2006 23:23

maxdimario wrote on Tue, 14 March 2006 22:09
Quote:

the ideal mic and preamp, to capture a voice realistically would need to have no 'dynamic signature' on any frequency.

often though, a little bit of resonance in the high end is desireable because of the inherent limitations of both the signal chain from mic to finished master and subsequently cd and home stereo.


And how does a common gear purchaser like me find out whether or not or a particular mic / preamp has a 'dynamic signature'?

For example the tech-specs given at microphone-data or some flyers of mic manufacturers say nothing about it? Am I missing some fine-print or not being understand the specs properly?



You need to STEP OUT of the marketing-age mentality and actually impose yourself to LISTEN before you buy.
You also need to accept that nobody will EVER  become a good engineer, or make wonderful-sounding recordings based on a brochure, specs or heresay.
You MUST use your ears and build up experience.
if you must learn from somebody learn from the people who's work you admire, and see what they really use.

specs need to be interpreted, and although they are an indication of the quality of a mic or preamp, they can only be really understood by a technically minded person who has experience in electronics. They simply cannot be fully understood by someone who does not have direct experience, which is why in the end the ears are better..
Of course this is assuming you have recording and listening experience. Smile
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nirguni

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Re: How to capture the resonance of a voice?
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2006, 02:51:32 PM »

Happy to see the forum back after the software revamp... Very Happy
Had begun missing interacting with all of you....

Max
I totally agree with you... that one must listen and develop an ear.... You spoke the truth - and that too an important one.

Just two points as a footnote....

1. In some countries, due to the limited availability of brands and also due to prohibitive currency conversion rates - the opportunities for personally listening to a lot of gear are limited too. Hence forums like these are invaluable where one can ask the others who have heard more

2. Yes the specs can be understood properly only by the technically educated. That makes forums like this doubly useful where the less informed can enhance their technical understanding by interacting with the more knowledgeable.

Your first post was very useful for me - personally...

So do put in all your further contributions about the tech stuff - keeping these two points in mind. Your experience is of great help to people like me.

To all those who posted on this thread once...
Please take the time to read earlier posts (that you may or may not have missed) and respond with more inputs at least once more... new thoughts in response to the others?

Regards
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danickstr

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Re: How to capture the resonance of a voice?
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2006, 12:56:29 PM »

one thing i can tell you is that it isn't the same answer twice for any given situation(s).  This is not a technical matter I hate to say because if there was a technical formula for getting the nuance of a vocal to work perfectly, then anyone would do it.  As it is, it mainly takes experimentation to find the qualities that you need to be there and allowing some to slip away in the transfromation from sound through molecules of air (specific to the room and creator) to electrons running through circuits as transformed by a plate of sputtered gold with a wire on it(specific to the engineers who made them).

that beign said there are general tricks to this but this forum is not about tricks. trix are for kids.
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Nick Dellos - MCPE  

Food for thought for the future:              http://http://www.kurzweilai.net/" target="_blank">http://www.kurzweilai.net/www.physorg.com
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