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Author Topic: brightness in unmixed tracks...?  (Read 9169 times)

mr jason

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2006, 04:09:27 PM »

Yeah, very often the sounds that your ears construe as a good sound (when recording seperate instruments) is your problem, cos you're hearing (for example) an electric guitar which you want to sound "full" or "warm" in isolation, but then if you put that in a busy mix it's that fullness that is the problem. When people here the finished song, they aren't going to be listening to each instrument in isolation, so you need to change the way you think about those instruments when you're tracking, and think where each instrument needs to sit in the mix.
What frequencies are vital to the listener, for them to recognise what what instrument is? There's no point trying to get some nice warm lower-mids and bottom end on guitar a lot of the time (unless it's JUST guitar and vocals), cos then you're not gonna be able to seperate it from the bass guitar or bass drum without some serious EQing later on.
As has already been pointed out, cutting lower mid on instruments is a great way of clearing things up in that region, but as others have also pointed out, bearing the finished product in mind whilst tracking will help more.
I was recording overdubs on a song last night, including sax, tambourines/shakers, handclaps, backing vocals etc, and when I was listening to the vocals (to set levels) they sounded a bit harsh and bass-light, but once recorded they fitted in the mix perfectly without needing EQ, and without getting in the way of anything else.
I was using a 421, which is great for that kind of thing.
If you want to hear that song as an example, or to slag off my song/playing/work, then either is fine with me, hehe: http://laprecords.co.uk/studio/mp3s/ap_rebel.mp3
I haven't done the final mix yet, but it's getting there.

Pingu

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2006, 01:23:46 PM »

bert wrote on Tue, 14 March 2006 07:18

i was recording some tracks two weeks ago and am mxing on them right now. it's loud guitar rock music and while mixing right now, i've always come to the same conclusion regarding the recorded tracks. everything lacks a bigger or smaller amount of clarity. when using a master eq, cut at low mids and boost above 10-12 kHz, it suddenly becomes brighter like it should be. the fact that i had to do this while mixing, is this "common" in most recordings? or am i going wrong somewhere while tracking the different instruments?

greetings



Most times mastering will add that sheen.

Just aim for a balanced diet and mastering will add the sparkle.

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j.hall

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2006, 01:32:24 PM »

dangerous advice.........

we should always push each other to rely on mastering as little as possible.

i know when the mastering guy tells me he used very little EQ i am very happy.

my clients aren't doing recalls off mastered mixes.  if it's dull, they are going to tell me, and i'll have to deal with it right then and there.

"don't worry, mastering will brighten it up"  simply doesn't work for my clients.  they won't sign off on a mix till it's what they want.
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floodstage

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2006, 02:54:47 PM »

I battle w/bass build up/muddyness very regularly.

I just finished a 6 song project last night and although it ended up sounding pretty darn good, it took a TON of EQ to get it there.

I cut low mids from just about everything but the drums, lows from the guitar and some from the vocals, boosted highs on voc's and guitars, etc.

Then I went back for a second round and cut some more.

Finally, put a compressor on the 2 bus to glue and tame the kick and the bass.

That last step helped a lot.

I'm going to have to revaluate what I go for in tracking because I'm sculpting with a chain saw and not just fine tuning.

Not really giving advice, just saying "I feel your pain!"


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John Ivan

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2006, 04:20:43 PM »

j.hall wrote on Mon, 27 March 2006 13:32

dangerous advice.........

we should always push each other to rely on mastering as little as possible.

i know when the mastering guy tells me he used very little EQ i am very happy.

my clients aren't doing recalls off mastered mixes.  if it's dull, they are going to tell me, and i'll have to deal with it right then and there.

"don't worry, mastering will brighten it up"  simply doesn't work for my clients.  they won't sign off on a mix till it's what they want.



I agree with this 100%. I like to have the mix where I want it when it leaves my room. Mastering might end up adding a little top or other shaping but I like to hear back from the mastering engineer to find out what he thought the "problems" were so I can do all I can at the mix stage.

My 2 cents.
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Fibes

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2006, 12:18:12 AM »

Get what you want, don't ever ask others to do what you can do for yourself.

That said we all should be eternally unsatisfied with our work. It's the only way to grow.
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Pingu

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2006, 08:40:24 AM »

Yes i suppose mastering has never added sheen to a mix and he should really be playing around with eq on the 2 buss to get that finished sound whilst mixing.
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j.hall

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2006, 10:11:04 AM »

Pingu wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 07:40

Yes i suppose mastering has never added sheen to a mix and he should really be playing around with eq on the 2 buss to get that finished sound whilst mixing.



mastering can add, and for me, usually does add, some top end or "sheen".  you were for sure right about that the first time.

i just think we should be pushing each other toward perfection, not settling for mediocrity.

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Pingu

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2006, 10:55:52 AM »

Yes i hear yer there.


I dabble in a bit of mastering and some clients expect me to turn there crap into gold.
Im so over trying to polish dog shit.


Plus  when i wrote the initial statement i was too lazy to explain myself.

My bad.

But its 100% correct that you get the mix sounding as best you can.

Do not rely on mastering as it can only do so much.

And as they say the best records required the least amount of mastering/processing.
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j.hall

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2006, 12:50:57 PM »

i'm happy to polish turds, i just tell the bands,

"polishing a turd typically leaves you with a smaller, different shade of brown.....turd"
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floodstage

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2006, 01:20:44 PM »

Mastering is like makeup, it can make an ugly girl look better, but it works even better on a really pretty one!


 




(at least that's what I've heard, haven't been playing with makeup .... not that there's anything wrong with that ...... ummm nevermind!)
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Pingu

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Re: brightness in unmixed tracks...?
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2006, 04:11:47 PM »

i always play with makeup
































gain as well.
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If I defend myself I am attacked. But in defenselessness I will be strong, and I will learn what my defenses hide.
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