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Author Topic: Stereo enhancement  (Read 3826 times)

Release

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Stereo enhancement
« on: April 07, 2006, 09:26:40 AM »

Just wondering...how often do you guys use stereo enhancement in a mastering session?

For me it seems to be something that works 9 times out of 10 (very subtle though!) It just seems to add more character to a mix and of course it brings out the ambience a little better.

But I use it so much that I start doubting myself  Rolling Eyes
What do you guys think of stereo enhancement and how often do you use it?

I must add that I haven't had this stereo enhancer a long time yet, I recently bought it. So maybe it was just something that worked for the few projects I did since I have the unit.
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Pingu

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2006, 10:03:02 AM »

Just pay attention to the smearing it causes.

Sometimes this is required but not always.
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TotalSonic

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2006, 12:32:04 PM »

It's pretty rare that I use a stereo enhancer - I'd say maybe one track out of 40 on average.  I usually will only use one if the mix is really sent in where it is dimensionless or fairly mono.   Otherwise I find that enhancers tend to "smear" things as Pingu noted - and it's very easy to lose the impact of the center and to make the track less mono compatible unless you are very careful in applying them.

Anyway - for these chores in the analog realm I have an older SPL SX2 Vitalizer and in the digital realm I've found that the Virtos stereo enhancer also can do some cool stuff if it is only added in very subtly.

Once in a while I will bring up the gain on the Side channel in M/S processing, or EQ the Side a little different than the Mid channel - this is much more common procedure for me to do than using a dedicated "enhancer".

Best regards,
Steve Berson

jtr

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2006, 12:39:04 PM »

M15A wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 06:26

Just wondering...how often do you guys use stereo enhancement in a mastering session?

For me it seems to be something that works 9 times out of 10. It just seems to add more character to a mix and of course it brings out the ambience a little better.

But I use it so much that I start doubting myself  Rolling Eyes
What do you guys think of stereo enhancement and how often do you use it?



Keep doubting yourself.  It's like that hf eq (air) that seduces you in and won't let go... until two weeks later and you listen to your work and wonder what you were thinking. It's not something to do when your ears are tired!


When I do use it, it's very slight and not always for the same reasons (duh).  Sometimes it's to widen the image slightly, sometimes it's to collapse a midrange freq in order to focus a vocal a little more in the "phantom image". In all cases it's to accomplish something that could have been done in the mix stage but wasn't, and now it's on my plate.  Of course, there are plenty of methods we might refer to as stereo enhancement....
ranging from the plethora of multiband imaging plugs, m-s techniques, to Bob Katz's K-Stereo processor. Which type were you  
referring to?

The only generalisation about how I use the multiband stereo enhancement stuff  I'd make is  to say that I'm not real comfortable with it, and don't want to be. Sort of like running a chain saw.  The day I entirely trust either I'll lose a client or a body part.  
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carlsaff

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2006, 12:44:34 PM »

When it sounds good, I use it. It sounds good fairly often, although when there are phase issues inherent to a mix, it can be very problematic.

I like the stereo width section of Voxengo's Soniformer. I usually use this without any of the plug's compression in effect. There are other techniques that I use, as well... but that one gets a lot of play. It can be extremely subtle (when set up properly).

bblackwood

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2006, 12:52:51 PM »

Make sure you hit the mono button often...
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Ronny

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2006, 01:19:44 PM »



I only use stereo enhancement when it's specifically asked for. You are altering the mix engineers original pan trajectories (pan settings for DC), when you use it and I'm surprised that people don't get called on it for that reason. Stereo image is best achieved during the mix, IMHO. I certainly wouldn't use it as a default process on every tune.  
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Release

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2006, 01:30:44 PM »

bblackwood wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 17:52

Make sure you hit the mono button often...


thats indeed something I check for regularly. I was referring to the 'vector relation' enhancement, like the Waves S1. Only I don't use the S1 because I don't like it, it tends to smear very quickly. I use a hardware unit that was originally custom made for a studio I used to work for. I bought it from them.

I haven't had the unit for a long time yet, so maybe it is true that one day I will listen back those mixes and think 'what the *** was I doing there??', or it is just a coincidence that since I have the unit I only did projects on which it sounds good...

Either way I always use it very subtle of course. It messes up the mix if you don't use it subtle I think.
But it is interesting to hear that it is not used that much over here...
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jtr

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2006, 08:01:29 PM »

Ronny wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 10:19



I only use stereo enhancement when it's specifically asked for. You are altering the mix engineers original pan trajectories (pan settings for DC), when you use it and I'm surprised that people don't get called on it for that reason. Stereo image is best achieved during the mix, IMHO. I certainly wouldn't use it as a default process on every tune.  



While I agree entirely with you on one level (and the responsibility involved) , I'm in a situation where many of my clients don't ask for it because they don't even know what it is.

Most of them just want me to do whatever it is I do to make things the way I think they oughta be....  I suppose this is similar to the Stems mastering discussions.    I don't really like fiddling with anything that changes the mix , but sometimes it seems that slight adjustments are necessary based on my own judgement.  

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Release

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2006, 01:12:11 AM »

So then what doest the K-stereo processor do? Doesn't that change the mix in any way? Bob Katz says he uses it on most of his projects in his book.

Listening to some CD's out there I thought there MUST be some kind of stereo enhancement going on judging by the effect my unit has on my mixes....Of course it depends on the music if it works or not.

Quote:

Most of them just want me to do whatever it is I do to make things the way I think they oughta be.... I suppose this is similar to the Stems mastering discussions. I don't really like fiddling with anything that changes the mix , but sometimes it seems that slight adjustments are necessary based on my own judgement.


That is also the situation I am in, since I am mainly mastering demo recordings. In fact I did only one commercial project so far, but I just started out so I hope there is more to come:)
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cerberus

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2006, 02:05:49 AM »

M15A wrote on Fri, 07 April 2006 13:30

 I don't use the S1 because I don't like it, it tends to smear very quickly. I use a hardware unit that was originally custom made for a studio I used to work for. I bought it from them.

I haven't had the unit for a long time yet, so maybe it is true that one day I will listen back those mixes and think 'what the *** was I doing there??', or it is just a coincidence that since I have the unit I only did projects on which it sounds good...

Either way I always use it very subtle of course. It messes up the mix if you don't use it subtle I think.
But it is interesting to hear that it is not used that much over here...


i think your conclusion is wrong.

to me this is like depth of field in photography: of the infinite number of possible settings for aperture and focus. most of them would be expected to yield a completely blurry image. does this malign those controls on a camera for you?

there are a few different types of stereo enhancement... ellliptic eq for example, that's an intesting one. always looking for more info on that... i bet rudy van gelder has one, but he isn't talking...

m/s is essential to me in order to preserve the image that exists in a mix. i think that all dynamics and eq processes will have an effect on the soundstage, so "mastering" implies to me: the engineer enough control over the stereo image to avoid ruining it,  if you perform eq and dynamics processes, there is going to be collateral damage. one hires a professional mastering engineer precisely to avoid that.  anyone can simply make it loud.

jeff dinces

Release

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2006, 02:13:25 AM »

cerberus wrote on Sat, 08 April 2006 07:05


i think your conclusion is wrong.

to me this is like depth of field in photography: there are an infinite number of possible settings for aperture and focus. most of them would be expected to yield a completely blurry image. does this malign those controls on a camera for you?

jeff dinces


I see it as just another tool in the mastering studio. Nothing more, nothing less.

You can't deny that it completely changes a mix if you use it too much. But if that is what you want: Great!

So let me change the word 'messing up the mix' by 'changing the mix'.


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greg charles

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2006, 02:24:16 AM »

It's just a tool that can be used...and abused easily.  I find better luck going with M/S and then EQ, unless I use the S1 just a teeny weeny weeny bit.
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Viitalahde

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2006, 02:48:05 AM »

I just did some pretty subtle & nice enhancment by cutting the low end from the side channel. Worked well and helped the low end, too. The tracks had a lot of mixbuss reverb on them, I quess it did some mush.
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Jaakko Viitalähde
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cerberus

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Re: Stereo enhancement
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2006, 03:07:58 AM »

greg charles wrote on Sat, 08 April 2006 02:24

It's just a tool that can be used...and abused easily.  I find better luck going with M/S and then EQ, unless I use the S1 just a teeny weeny weeny bit.


s1 has an option called "shuffling"... this is another type of stereo enhancer... i've never tried it for mastering...thanks for reminding me.    


jeff dinces
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