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Author Topic: a couple simple questions  (Read 1945 times)

JPGR

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a couple simple questions
« on: March 09, 2006, 12:32:18 am »

Okay, like so many others, I'm doing a bit of mastering in Wavelab (just on some demos).

Simple Question 1: If a song has a few peaks that are fairly high before mastering, no harm in lowering the gain on the whole file to give yourself some headroom before continuing, right? Gain changing down 4 to 6 db...

Simple Question 2: Conversely, if a song has an average that is fairly low, is there any reason to raise the volume first before continuing with any mastering, or at least before final limiting. For example, say, before mastering the song peaks at -10 (averaging much lower), so you do a bit of EQ, maybe a little compression, the song still peaks around -10...is there any reason to normalize or gain change it up (how high?) before applying the final limiter?

Thanks.
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jdg

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2006, 01:57:17 am »

if your recordings are 24bit or greater.. -10 from FS is fine Smile
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john mcCaig
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Pingu

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2006, 01:57:41 am »

JPGR wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 13:32

Okay, like so many others, I'm doing a bit of mastering in Wavelab (just on some demos).

Simple Question 1: If a song has a few peaks that are fairly high before mastering, no harm in lowering the gain on the whole file to give yourself some headroom before continuing, right? Gain changing down 4 to 6 db...

Simple Question 2: Conversely, if a song has an average that is fairly low, is there any reason to raise the volume first before continuing with any mastering, or at least before final limiting. For example, say, before mastering the song peaks at -10 (averaging much lower), so you do a bit of EQ, maybe a little compression, the song still peaks around -10...is there any reason to normalize or gain change it up (how high?) before applying the final limiter?

Thanks.



Q1 = no harm.

Q2 = If you are sending the song to be mastered and not doing it yourself then i would say by all means do whatever you want to the mix processing wise.
Get it sounding the way you want and then send the ME that and the unprocessed.
I am pretty sure that no one here normalises. Again another fad that took off that i cant understand how.
Quote:


is there any reason to normalize or gain change it up (how high?) before applying the final limiter?


The only reason to do anything is for the benefit of the song.
If you are talking about pre mastering still then it is not a good idea to slap a limiter on the mix before mastering and not a good idea to normalise either.
But pay attention to the levels and bring them down as you said to make sure the master fader isnt overloading. It doesnt have to red to be overloading, either.

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JPGR

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2006, 02:25:42 am »

No, this is not pre-mastering...this would be for "final" mastering.

So, just to make sure we're on the same page, if the song is low in average volume, when I put the limiter on, say the L2, what I'm trying to achieve is 2 things: one is simply bringing the volume up
(which I could do with a gain change or normalizing or whatever you want to call it), and I'm also trying to achieve a little extra volume without going over, hence the use of a limiter. Right?

So, I could just do it with the limiter (and would therefore need to lower the threshold a lot more), and there would be no advantage or disadvantage to raising the volume thru a gain change first. Right?

Sorry if this question seems stupid or confusing at all...it seems a no brainer but I just want to be sure and I don't think I've seen it addressed really.
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Pingu

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2006, 02:45:30 am »

 http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/9228/0/0/1 3127/?SQ=4e5ddb5b695c5c7c3f9302e78eba5567
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/91819/13127/?SQ =787693a1e5d4703a5826643340db6478#msg_91819
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lagerfeldt

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2006, 03:43:31 am »

JPGR wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 08:25

No, this is not pre-mastering...this would be for "final" mastering.


This is called pre-mastering. A bit confusing, I know.

JPGR

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2006, 04:15:37 am »

lagerfeldt wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 08:43

JPGR wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 08:25

No, this is not pre-mastering...this would be for "final" mastering.


This is called pre-mastering. A bit confusing, I know.


Whoops... Rolling Eyes
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JPGR

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2006, 04:22:31 am »

Pingu wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 07:45

  http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/9228/0/0/1 3127/?SQ=4e5ddb5b695c5c7c3f9302e78eba5567
 http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/91819/13127/?SQ =787693a1e5d4703a5826643340db6478#msg_91819



I appreciate the links and I'll read through them...but...

I'm still not sure we're on the same page. I'm not interested in learning how to smash the master or get the maximum amount of volume, just, er, what I asked about raising the gain before applying the limiter, whether it matters or not in any way.

It's really just a yes/no question like the first one.

I'm thinking at this point that it doesn't matter and the results would be nearly identical.

Thanks.
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Jerry Tubb

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2006, 04:31:18 am »

lagerfeldt wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 02:43

JPGR wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 08:25

No, this is not pre-mastering...this would be for "final" mastering.


This is called pre-mastering. A bit confusing, I know.


Pre-Mastering... technically correct, but antiquated terminology in my book.

Kinda "dated" like the DDD AAD ADD DAD designation, or R-DAT, or PCM1610.

I prefer the term... Mastering... for what we do.

Contrast to folks wrongly calling the CD-R master a "glass master"... I bet we've all explained that one a few times as well.

You've been "Pre-Approved" for a credit line of up to 100,000 shekels for studio gear.

Best Regards
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ammitsboel

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2006, 06:08:51 am »

JPGR wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 06:32

Okay, like so many others, I'm doing a bit of mastering in Wavelab (just on some demos).

Simple Question 1: If a song has a few peaks that are fairly high before mastering, no harm in lowering the gain on the whole file to give yourself some headroom before continuing, right? Gain changing down 4 to 6 db...

I don't know how wavelab sounds. I think it's best to test how wavelab gains by burning a CDR with some examples and listening to how they sound on different systems.

I don't think it helps anyone to make a conclusion and say that digital gain is the same.

What is your other options for gaining?

Best Regards
Henrik
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Pingu

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2006, 06:57:29 am »

 Razz

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bblackwood

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2006, 07:32:55 am »

JPGR wrote on Wed, 08 March 2006 23:32

Simple Question 1: If a song has a few peaks that are fairly high before mastering, no harm in lowering the gain on the whole file to give yourself some headroom before continuing, right? Gain changing down 4 to 6 db...

No harm.

Quote:

Simple Question 2: Conversely, if a song has an average that is fairly low, is there any reason to raise the volume first before continuing with any mastering, or at least before final limiting. For example, say, before mastering the song peaks at -10 (averaging much lower), so you do a bit of EQ, maybe a little compression, the song still peaks around -10...is there any reason to normalize or gain change it up (how high?) before applying the final limiter?

Generally speaking, no, it doesn't matter where you apply the gain, outside of how it affects the processors that follow it. If you are doing it ITB, I'd save it for the limiter, which shouldn't change the signal at all unless it is actually limiting it...
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Brad Blackwood
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JPGR

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2006, 07:19:20 pm »

bblackwood wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 12:32


Generally speaking, no, it doesn't matter where you apply the gain, outside of how it affects the processors that follow it. If you are doing it ITB, I'd save it for the limiter, which shouldn't change the signal at all unless it is actually limiting it...


Hmmm, there seems to be some differing opinions here, but this is what I was thinking.

Thanks.
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Pingu

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2006, 08:35:02 am »

If you are refering to where there is now a smiley face with differing opinions then it is safe to accept what Brad said.

Thats why i deleted what i said as it did kinda conflict with what Brad said, and at the end of the day im a spring chicken compared to Brad.
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lagerfeldt

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2006, 08:53:50 am »

Pingu wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 14:35

im a spring chicken compared to Brad.


I'm pretty sure you were a penguin

Pingu

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Re: a couple simple questions
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2006, 09:16:12 am »

lagerfeldt wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 21:53

Pingu wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 14:35

im a spring chicken compared to Brad.


I'm pretty sure you were a penguin




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