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[john paterno]

but that comes with experience so what is going in the head of a novice?

'What would Michael Brauer do?', of course...

[Michael Brauer]

No really a ''novice ''. I play drums for the last 20 years, i may ask some
''novice '' question about plugins, but for the rest i can manage myself.....

P.S. i will post for the last time in here, i don't need that kind of condescendence behavior, no matter  how many Grammy someone can win.............

what?? I wasn't referring to anyone. I don't even know you. I'm asking a general question of what happens with a novice.

michael

[Michael Brauer]

Hey man, I think you entirely mis-read what Mr. Brauer was saying and over-reacted.  He was not calling you a novice, he was only asking what experienced people thought what was going through the average Novice's head.    No worries!!

Cheers, Bryan

yah, that was weird. I'm interested in how the process develops and at what point you can depend on those voices. I am still not 100% with them. anytime the client comes in and says 'sorry man but that's not the way I hear the song" two things happen, my ego has to take a chill and my voices are assholes, why did I listen to them?
michael

[Michael Brauer]

a novice does not have little voices always, some are anything but little

and that's what I want to know more about. Because if voices are based on experienced and a novice is coming up with genius ideas, the experience theory is no longer valid. My first record that I recorded and mixed was Luther Vandross's first record. It still holds up and I was doing some pretty cool things back then but I only had a couple hears experience, so I guess really it's more about simply little voices with a big hammer that just comes from some place deep inside. And for some it's great and for others it's not.

michael

[Michael Brauer]

Oupsssss  you might be right, i should had listen to my little voices....
Sorry, sorry sorry.

JN

forgiven.

[Michael Brauer]

I was mixing a couple of days ago and slaving away having no fun and hating on my gig
and  one big voice was saying
this mix sucks, you are never going to make it sound like music
get away from it .. go !!
go .. go ... go ... and grab the skateboard and take your son to the skatepark
I jumped out of my seat
grabbed Brady
grabbed our boards
and bailed
came back a few hours later
and
that voice said
check it out, it might not be as bad as you think
and
I sat down and made a record ...
sometimes the white flag in the corner wins and sometime we have to be smarter than our own persistence to persist
because
anything you resist
will persist

that's brilliant!

[Michael Brauer]

so at this point should we agree that;
1- you don't have to have much experience/novice to have your little voices lead you down a great path
2- instinct for musical decisions is not necessarily based on experience but maybe more on recalling from the millions of sensory memories gathered since birth and everyday from direct and indirect stimuli. Like hanging out watching a band and brainstorming some ideas or sitting at home just making your own music and the most amazing ideas seem to pop up with ease?
3-Listening to your little voices no matter how experienced(i speak for myself) can mislead you.
4- There isn't always just one great interpretation of a song.
5- The artist's vision supersedes the engineers.
6- Artist's vision isn't always the right one for the song to meet it's full potential. example: I've re arranged a song during a mix and it turned out way better than the version that had all the instruments playing from the top.
7- Why do little voices always have attitude?

michael

[Extreme Mixing]

Michael,

Great to hear you say those things.  It is always for the artist's vision that we do this stuff.  Sometimes I mix what's there, sometimes I mix what I think should be there and follow those little voices that you mentioned.  I actually don't know how I would work without them.  When I start a mix, I always start with the things that I know have to be done.  I organize the tracks in a way that makes sense to me.  Set up the board.  I listen to the rough.  I listen in groups to make sure the tracks are clean and to study what's there.  What happens from there is mostly a matter of following my nose and not censoring myself.

Steve

[Michael Brauer]

Michael,

Great to hear you say those things.  It is always for the artist's vision that we do this stuff.  Sometimes I mix what's there, sometimes I mix what I think should be there and follow those little voices that you mentioned.  I actually don't know how I would work without them.  When I start a mix, I always start with the things that I know have to be done.  I organize the tracks in a way that makes sense to me.  Set up the board.  I listen to the rough.  I listen in groups to make sure the tracks are clean and to study what's there.  What happens from there is mostly a matter of following my nose and not censoring myself.

Steve

that's pretty much what it comes down to.

I know there are records that I wouldn't have been able to nail if it weren't for my experience. Also it doesn't always come down to simply having good mixing chops.Sometimes you have to fight for the direction that you know is best and you have to keep artist's sometimes huge egos in check in the process. when that happens I know those voices are the voices of experience and I'm able to avert a problem by predicting and addressing issues before they happen.

michael

[Cass Anawaty]

I've gotten into more trouble by not listening to those voices than when I follow my instincts.  "What I should have done" is tough to live with, and I'd rather get a "no" than assume it.

[Extreme Mixing]

Michael,

I'm wondering how much replacing and augmenting of sounds you do?  Do you have certain drum sounds layered into all of the sessions by your assistants, then pick and choose for yourself when you're mixing?  Or do you have a production meeting with your staff and decide what needs to be done before things are done.  Vocal tuning, drum sound augmentation, adding parts...

I'm a one man show, so I do it all for myself.  If I need drums sounds, I add it.  For the past several years, I've also been adding musical parts when I feel that the production/song needs it.  I did a mix last week for a guy who sends things over and says "Steve, do your thing".  It's an open invitation to take the song somewhere.  He even sends me his midi files in case I want to change his sounds out.  On this one, I ran out of DSP because of so many RTAS instruments.  I've been mixing for a long time, too, but this is really fun.  How much production work to you do in projects?

Ross, these questions go out to you as well.

Steve

[Michael Brauer]

Michael,

I'm wondering how much replacing and augmenting of sounds you do?  Do you have certain drum sounds layered into all of the sessions by your assistants, then pick and choose for yourself when you're mixing?  Or do you have a production meeting with your staff and decide what needs to be done before things are done.  Vocal tuning, drum sound augmentation, adding parts...

I'm a one man show, so I do it all for myself.  If I need drums sounds, I add it.  For the past several years, I've also been adding musical parts when I feel that the production/song needs it.  I did a mix last week for a guy who sends things over and says "Steve, do your thing".  It's an open invitation to take the song somewhere.  He even sends me his midi files in case I want to change his sounds out.  On this one, I ran out of DSP because of so many RTAS instruments.  I've been mixing for a long time, too, but this is really fun.  How much production work to you do in projects?

Ross, these questions go out to you as well.

Steve

can you please post this as a new subject, it's not relevant to the topic we are discussing.

thanks,

michael

[organica_]

<3-Listening to your little voices no matter how experienced(i speak for myself) can mislead you.>

For me, it's become very clear that inner voices can indeed be more misleading if not connected to my heart (or seem like it).... which perhaps is a kooky of saying that if they're intellectually based voices, moreso than emotionally/feeling  based, then it's best for me not to give too much attention to them necessarily when mixing. Voices feel different from one to another... in my zone anyhow. This is a great thread & btw- hello!

[Cass Anawaty]

<3-Listening to your little voices no matter how experienced(i speak for myself) can mislead you.>

For me, it's become very clear that inner voices can indeed be more misleading if not connected to my heart (or seem like it).... which perhaps is a kooky of saying that if they're intellectually based voices, moreso than emotionally/feeling  based, then it's best for me not to give too much attention to them necessarily when mixing. Voices feel different from one to another... in my zone anyhow. This is a great thread & btw- hello!

Yep.  I also have to separate the "true" gut feeling from the "I just got this great piece and HAVE to use it!", lol.

[gtoledo3]

The best way I ever heard this put was the term "spell-breaker". The thought that when you listen to the mix, things either break the spell for you, or don't. What may or may not break the spell for the mixer may be different than what breaks it for the artist, or the audience.