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Author Topic: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???  (Read 7912 times)

xonlocust

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2006, 11:17:43 am »

j.hall wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 09:40

more recent stuff that's caught my attention

bullet train to vegas
the valley arena
new black
minus the bear
the life and times


i'm flattered j. thanks!

morningstar if you wanna listen for free even you can at:
http://www.purevolume.com/newblack

at any rate... i also wanted to throw in another small sampling:

the birthday party
brainiac
failure
girls against boys
the gossip
helium
hot snakes
icarus line
the jesus lizard
jud jud
les savy fav
lost sounds
mclusky
milemarker
nick cave & the bad seeds
no knife
pixes
the ponys
pj harvey
q and not u
quintron
scratch acid
six finger satellite
sonic youth
superchunk
u.s. maple

(can you tell i just scrolled through my itunes playlist for bands not already mentioned that i think are of note....)

i think we all have our own little personaly tastes and subsets of indie music that we like. what everyone that i know has in common is a sense of finding some band or record or seeing some small show that drastically shifted how they perceive music.  you'll get a different list from everyone here. i guess in some respect we're a bunch of born again christians.  maybe it is some wierd sort of elitism - or i found this great band noone else knows about.... i dunno. it's just music. whatever.  i also listen to a lot of houston rap so what do i know.

pg666

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2006, 11:25:49 am »

Quote:

since it doesn't, i'd have to say that "alt country" is just bad punk.


haha. i'd also call alt-country "an excuse to drink. a lot."

to answer the question "where are the great singers?"...

Shannonwright
Spoon
Cat Power
Electrelane
Open Hand

probably a bunch more i can't think of

yup
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MorningStar

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2006, 11:48:57 am »

pg666 wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 11:25

Quote:

since it doesn't, i'd have to say that "alt country" is just bad punk.


haha. i'd also call alt-country "an excuse to drink. a lot."

to answer the question "where are the great singers?"...

Shannonwright
Spoon
Cat Power
Electrelane
Open Hand

probably a bunch more i can't think of

yup


Shannonwright- Fionia Apple is indie??
Spoon - eh maybe, its cool
Cat Power -yes - thankyou!
Electrelane- vocals are most definately weak- can we sing in tune???
Open Hand - YES YES YES- is this indie???

pg666

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2006, 12:08:58 pm »

Quote:

Open Hand - YES YES YES- is this indie???


yup. they even turned down a few major label contracts. (and not your standard, obviously shitty deals...)

admittedly, their sound isn't too far from some commercial rock, but whatever.

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j.hall

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2006, 12:34:45 pm »

indie rock has never been about vocal talent.

if we are going to talk about vocals as it relates ti indie rock this is the most true statement:

indie rock is mostly about what you have to say, not how in tune you say it.
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Fabricoh35

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2006, 12:42:39 pm »

j.hall wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 12:34

indie rock has never been about vocal talent.

if we are going to talk about vocals as it relates ti indie rock this is the most true statement:

indie rock is mostly about what you have to say, not how in tune you say it.


Can you say Halo Benders!
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starscream2010

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2006, 12:54:37 pm »

j.hall wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 11:34

indie rock has never been about vocal talent.

if we are going to talk about vocals as it relates ti indie rock this is the most true statement:

indie rock is mostly about what you have to say, not how in tune you say it.



I couldn't agree more with that statement.
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MorningStar

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2006, 01:13:23 pm »

j.hall wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 12:34

indie rock has never been about vocal talent.

if we are going to talk about vocals as it relates ti indie rock this is the most true statement:

indie rock is mostly about what you have to say, not how in tune you say it.


Oh boy... I hate to even say this then- but it comes back to image and attitude then doesn't it?? Talent isnt really part of it. Its all about what I have to say and how I'm getting my message across..

So just to tie this in to what I think the point of the forum is. The real question is How do we go about capturing that "message" on tape (hard drives, whatever..)
Now I really hate to  say this but doesnt it really tie into the Albini philosphy of just being the guy that captures what the artist is, without imparting any of my own sound to it?? Wouldnt the point be to stay out of the way  and let the artist create?? Gear becomes less important then doesnt it.  

And I still want to know when music stopped being about talent. I cant get away with sucking as an engineer. Can I create a sound where out of phase drums is how I express myself.
Twisted Evil

j.hall

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2006, 01:34:04 pm »

MorningStar wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 12:13



Oh boy... I hate to even say this then- but it comes back to image and attitude then doesn't it?? Talent isnt really part of it. Its all about what I have to say and how I'm getting my message across..



talent is still a huge part of it.  just not vocally.

image is going to always be apart of any movement, or trend.  punks looked a certain way (for the most part), cowboys have a look, etc.....

attitude is probably what most defines indie rock.

Quote:


So just to tie this in to what I think the point of the forum is. The real question is How do we go about capturing that "message" on tape (hard drives, whatever..)



ummmmmmmmm, i guess.  my view of this forum has always been, "i'm a life long indie rock kid.  i know it, live it, and love it.  i happen to record it and mix it A LOT!  with all these other forums talking about recording, i should probably concentrate on what i know, and live daily.  that happens to be low budget indie rock records........."  the people that run this place requested that we all put a very short blurb up about our forum.  i figured that "indie rock in practice and in theory" would be sorta open ended to those in the know.  and that's where i set my sights.

Quote:


Now I really hate to  say this but doesnt it really tie into the Albini philosphy of just being the guy that captures what the artist is, without imparting any of my own sound to it??



not a bit.  i openly admit that my records (while each one sounds a bit different) all have the "j.hall sonic thumbprint".  i'm proud of it, it's who i am, and i can't change it.  people seem to dig it and they hire me to do it to their songs.

Quote:


Wouldnt the point be to stay out of the way  and let the artist create??



i can't stay "out of the way" if i'm the one mixing the record.  the concept of that blows my mind.  how do i not be in the room working and blending to my own ear and still get the songs mixed?

Quote:


Gear becomes less important then doesnt it.  



can you record without gear?

i sure can't.

and the gear i choose imparts a character on what i pass through it, so gear is very important to me.

Quote:


And I still want to know when music stopped being about talent.



when lawyers and record labels got involved.....HAHAHAHAHA

Quote:


I cant get away with sucking as an engineer. Can I create a sound where out of phase drums is how I express myself.



you can suck all you want, just don't expect to have a lot of clients.

out of phase drums, sure! just don't expect to have a lot of clients or radio play.
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pg666

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2006, 01:53:02 pm »

Quote:

Oh boy... I hate to even say this then- but it comes back to image and attitude then doesn't it?? Talent isnt really part of it.


uhh... no, sheesh.

john lennon sang off key sometimes and if you think he's not a talented singer... i'm near exit 10 on the NJTP right now and i'll come up there and slap ya

just kidding.. but not completely  Twisted Evil

there are a LOT of talented people in indie rock. there are a handful who are amongst the all-time greats at their craft. what some underground bands realized by the late 70s is that technical proficiency shouldn't get in the way of honesty and emotional content. that doesn't mean people aren't talented if they are missing notes; hell, they might be doing it purposely for a reason. i personally like it when a singer is truly going for it even if quivering a bit. it makes it all the more human and relatable, something you won't get out of your Totos and Steely Dans..

applying conventional standards ("the singer's off key" or "why is there all that noise", ya know.. things my fuckin' grandma would say about music) doesn't work when it comes to (often) very unconventional music.

[edit: garretg's 1st paragraph below says the same thing more eloquently]
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garret

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2006, 02:06:09 pm »

There's a big different between talent and skill.   I guess that's the thing... Ira from Yo La Tengo has gobs of singing talent, but there's no way he'd make the first cut of american idol.  I do think singing talent is part of indie rock.  But keeping exactly on pitch, having a rich timbre to your voice, etc., are not necessarily requirements.  In indie rock circles, timing & delivery, feeling & energy, are more important than having a voice that can span 6 octaves.  There are great singers in indie rock circles that can do both.  Ted Leo comes to mind again.... the folks in Stereolab, Jeff Tweedy from Wilco, to name a few.  They all have voices I'd enjoy hearing read the phone book.

It's interesting to see the issue of "declining skills" turning up often on these forums.  I'm someone who I think has talent, but not a lot of skill... so for me the recording process is about capturing whatever magic I can create with the limited skills I have.  That's rather punk, I think.


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Iain Graham

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2006, 02:19:47 pm »

MorningStar wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 18:13

So just to tie this in to what I think the point of the forum is. The real question is How do we go about capturing that "message" on tape (hard drives, whatever..)
Now I really hate to  say this but doesnt it really tie into the Albini philosphy of just being the guy that captures what the artist is, without imparting any of my own sound to it?? Wouldnt the point be to stay out of the way  and let the artist create?? Gear becomes less important then doesnt it.  



To me that would make the gear even more important. You'd want it to be as neutral as possible. Anything even remotely coloured that you'd choose to use would be imparting your sound on the artist.

The mics/pre-amps that you choose to use during recording are imparting your sound. Because you chose that combination. We're all just capturing what the artist is doing. It's how we capture it that gives us "our sound".

The fact that Albini doesn't use very much processing means he's happy with the way his capture translates to the delivery medium.

Those of us who use more processing do so because we feel it is the best way of getting what we've captured onto the delivery medium, and getting the best representation of the artist out there. Or we've been asked to match the way someone else has done it before us.

I'm talking about a basic recording here, not including any special or different effects. I'm thinking of the project I'm on just now where the kit has gone through all kinds of processing, from the B4 to Amp Farm and back. Of the 8 songs I tracked kit on, 2 of them have a straight ahead drum sound on them. Never mind the rest of the band.

It's not indie rock, but most of the stuff I do isn't.  I just happen to be a rock and roll engineer making mostly folk records  Twisted Evil  Laughing

Iain
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xonlocust

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2006, 03:47:37 pm »

garretg wrote on Fri, 24 February 2006 13:06

There's a big different between talent and skill.   I guess that's the thing... Ira from Yo La Tengo has gobs of singing talent, but there's no way he'd make the first cut of american idol.  I do think singing talent is part of indie rock.  But keeping exactly on pitch, having a rich timbre to your voice, etc., are not necessarily requirements.  In indie rock circles, timing & delivery, feeling & energy, are more important than having a voice that can span 6 octaves.  There are great singers in indie rock circles that can do both.  Ted Leo comes to mind again.... the folks in Stereolab, Jeff Tweedy from Wilco, to name a few.  They all have voices I'd enjoy hearing read the phone book.

It's interesting to see the issue of "declining skills" turning up often on these forums.  I'm someone who I think has talent, but not a lot of skill... so for me the recording process is about capturing whatever magic I can create with the limited skills I have.  That's rather punk, I think.





that is an excellent post. one thing i look for in records i make or like is something unique. although i spose that's true for everyone, but more often than not, the thing that i personally like about a record is that quivering voice, or slight speeeing up... all those things that are left in or kept as a choice to separate it from the slew of other records out there.  the fact that it's so easy to engineer those things out these days w/autotune or sample replacement makes the point that records being made right now with those "mistakes" intact, really shows they're not mistakes at all...

as i get older - the more i see distinct parallels between indie/punk and the folk movement & dylan.

j.hall

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2006, 04:27:48 pm »

we are not going to turn this into an albini debate.  take that to his forum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the odd thing to me about all this is the overwhelming desire for those who don't know what exactly "indie rock" is, to find out.

not slighting those who don't know in anyway.  i just find it interesting.

i don't really understand what hip hop is, but i honestly couldn't care less.  i have a basic idea that hip hop is the rap equivilent to indie rock, but i haven't a clue where it begins and ends.  and yes, i do enjoy some rap and/or hip hop.

something else i've noticed that really intrigues me.

it seems as though the mainstream market is just as fascinated about indie rock as those inquiring about it form time to time on my forum.

about 6 years ago i told a friend that it wouldn't be too long before the lines of the underground and the mainstream became blurred.  he disagreed and thought that underground rock would never see the light of day and would essentially be kept "safe" by it's on idiosincricies that keep the mainstream from liking it.

my 13 year old neice has been wearing a white studded belt since she was 11.  she has slowly stopped shopping at limited and A&F and started asking me if KC has a hot topic and urban outfitters.

the "look" of indie rock is so mainstream now it is popular fashion.

we're even seeing the musical lines of indie rock getting blurred.

with band's like the used, hawthorn heights, coheed and cambria, open hand, etc.... hitting the mainstream with decent to great success it's getting even harder to say what exactly indie rock is or isn't.

i feel like i need to take an adam sandler moment and point out just who's "jewish" and who isn't.

those of us who have spent our "formative years" to present in the underground know exactly "what time it is".  those who haven't are struggling to figure out what the hell we are all talking about.

fibes, xonlocust and i once spent many hours discussing this topic.  we sorta came up with the analogy that indie rock, anymore, has become a secret society completely on accident.

perhaps not on accident.

a syndicate if you will.
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Fabricoh35

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Re: New to the forum and looking to start trouble..... Indie Rock???
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2006, 09:37:24 pm »

Morningstar, I give you something to check out.  Go listen to Archers of Loaf (old) and then Crooked Fingers (new).  Same guys fronts both bands.

Let me know what you think.  I don't want to influence your thoughts so I won't say anymore.

Eric knew what was coming back on the Vee Vee album when he sang "the underground is overcrowded".
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