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[John Ivan]

SAE

[Ronny]

jimmyjazz wrote on Mon, 20 February 2006 13:03

I am an engineer by education.  I have both bachelor's and masters degrees in mechanical engineering from accredited US universities. I am not a Professional Engineer; i.e., I cannot stamp drawings. I know acoustics, engineering physics, math.  I know gain structure.  I know what kind of microphone helps augment a certain tonal characteristic, or perhaps reject a sound I want rejected.  I know where to put microphones. I read music, and can play a whole bunch of instruments at a decent level and a couple better than that.  I read people, too.  I think I run sessions efficiently and help create environments with good vibe and low stress. I'm often wrong. All that having been said, I couldn't fix a dead amp if you spotted me the schematic, a soldering tech, and some divine intervention. Do I count?

If someone bitches that you aren't board certified, you can tell him where to put the microphone. That's a professional qualification in my book.    

[rankus]

The SAEPSW

[Klokkern]

Here in Norway (and I also think that goes for the rest of scandinavia), the term is sound technican.... I don´t really care what people call me as long as they pay what I charge them and as long as I have enough work to live and occasionally invest some money in my studio.

Sound- tech / engineer / designer / guy / studio owner / etc?? Whatever... Pay me what I want and pick the one you like

[Scott Helmke (Scodiddly)]

Patrick Brannen wrote on Mon, 20 February 2006 03:52

Ballance Engineer? Really? People are actually using that title?   I think "Chiefton of Audio Standards" has a better ring.

Nah, you can't use "Chiefton" until you've defeated the previous Chief in ritual combat.  

[cdr-1]

So, why aren't there standards in this industry?

Why can't I go get a Bachelors in audio engineering?

Why can't I then go to certified training classes every, like, year to keep up on current technology and standards?

Shit, why don't we have to go sit for some sort of accreditation exam at the end of our stint in college? Sort of like architects, engineers, nurses & lawyers do.

Why doesn't an individual have to have this accreditation before he can take on an intern (an intern working toward his degree in AE)?

Really, I'm asking.

I understand the bit where you go get an EE degree and then become an audio engineer.

But realistically, EE's are sort of in the position where they could get a pretty sweet 9-5 making good pay and retirement and benefits or scrape by for 25 years as a recording engineer.

Also, there seems to be a lot more to being an audio engineer than they teach in EE school. That is to say after a certain point an EE degree is going over things that may not be pertinent to audio engineering and not covering things that are.

I may be missing something but it seems like if we want standards, it wouldn't be an unattainable goal to set up an infrastructure that would make standards possible.

Adam
CDR

[t(h)ik]

cdr-1 wrote on Tue, 21 February 2006 15:03

So, why aren't there standards in this industry? Why can't I go get a Bachelors in audio engineering? Why can't I then go to certified training classes every, like, year to keep up on current technology and standards? Shit, why don't we have to go sit for some sort of accreditation exam at the end of our stint in college? Sort of like architects, engineers, nurses & lawyers do. Why doesn't an individual have to have this accreditation before he can take on an intern (an intern working toward his degree in AE)? Really, I'm asking. I understand the bit where you go get an EE degree and then become an audio engineer. But realistically, EE's are sort of in the position where they could get a pretty sweet 9-5 making good pay and retirement and benefits or scrape by for 25 years as a recording engineer. Also, there seems to be a lot more to being an audio engineer than they teach in EE school. That is to say after a certain point an EE degree is going over things that may not be pertinent to audio engineering and not covering things that are. I may be missing something but it seems like if we want standards, it wouldn't be an unattainable goal to set up an infrastructure that would make standards possible. Adam CDR

Because it's Rock and Roll....

And standards don't fukken count

[Joe Crawford]

cdr-1 wrote on Tue, 21 February 2006 09:03

So, why aren't there standards in this industry? Why can't I go get a Bachelors in audio engineering? Why can't I then go to certified training classes every, like, year to keep up on current technology and standards? Shit, why don't we have to go sit for some sort of accreditation exam at the end of our stint in college? Sort of like architects, engineers, nurses & lawyers do. Why doesn't an individual have to have this accreditation before he can take on an intern (an intern working toward his degree in AE)? Really, I'm asking. I understand the bit where you go get an EE degree and then become an audio engineer. But realistically, EE's are sort of in the position where they could get a pretty sweet 9-5 making good pay and retirement and benefits or scrape by for 25 years as a recording engineer. Also, there seems to be a lot more to being an audio engineer than they teach in EE school. That is to say after a certain point an EE degree is going over things that may not be pertinent to audio engineering and not covering things that are. I may be missing something but it seems like if we want standards, it wouldn't be an unattainable goal to set up an infrastructure that would make standards possible. Adam CDR

Check out the AES at: http://www.aes.org  Or,if all you want is a title, and there is enough money involved, you might be able to talk B.G. into coming up with a MSCAE program.

Joe

Joe

[John Ivan]

Well, there is AES and all those music production schools.{NOT to put them in the same heap.} I don't know what they teach but certain portions of the knowledge base needed to make a record, are not really "teachable".The big one is ,can you hear and act on what you hear in a way that produces fine results.

I've heard mixed reports on these "audio schools". Some say they're great and others say they're useless. I would bet the answer to that question depends on whether a given individual has "IT" on the way in.


The word Engineer means something though and is miss used a lot.

In other words, folks who are not engineers can make a good record and some who are real engineers can't.

OH, I'm all mixed up! Help!@#$%^&

[nwsoundman]

This is a sore subject with me.

Fuckin spacebar heros that would be totally fucked if I went in the room and moved just one patchcord is what I have to deal with daily.

[invisibl]

How about

whingeneers?

get on with it!!

[invisibl]

Stupid-cant-use-an-internet-forum dickhead am i....

double posted

[chrisj]

Ronny wrote on Mon, 20 February 2006 08:59

In this day and age, if you want to call yourself an audio engineer as relative to the older days of being able to fix anything that breaks, you have to be a computer programmer.

Bingo. I consider myself an engineer (though with no pretenses to claim any sort of license or accreditation) because if the software is broken, or if I need it to do something that doesn't exist or can't be done with what I have available, I'll build something else that can.

It's like a story in a book that I have (about MIT) where a respected teacher lectures freshmen about engineering by showing them a picture of a black-hole-vortex of confusion and failure, and insisting, that IS the territory. If you are an engineer you must fling yourself down that void of not-knowing-how over and over again, without being able to defer to higher authority. Your brain and the unsolved problem ARE the only authorities. When you can no longer stomach the strain of not knowing and not being able to fix it, that's when you give up, that's when you go into management...

A guy with one patchcord set wrong who has the cojones to fiddle with everything until he figures out how to fix it is an engineer by that standard.

A guy who codes DSP software to exactly implement stuff he read in books- that's not an engineer by that standard. Only if he's trying something new that he can't look up the answer, only then is he an engineer.

This is of course a weird perspective, but no matter. Works for me.

[soggy]

Interesting topic.  

While I have a BSEE, in the professional world I am an 'Engineer in Training'.  I took the EIT/FE test right out of school.  My boss is a 'Professional Engineer' but has no higher education than a BSME.

Before I went back to school (in my early 30's) to finish my degree, my business card read "Audio Engineer".  Now my business card reads "Electrical Designer".  I can't be called an 'Engineer' unless I get my PE.  Strange.

In a general sense, the hierarchy in the industrial world seems to be operator--> technician--> designer--> engineer.  Using this template it seems that most folks involved in audio recording would be called 'operators'.

On the other hand, there are many (especially within the older generation) in every field that may lack the formal education but have sincerely excellent engineering chops.  They are able to solve problems, the basic requirement of any 'Engineer'.  Unfortunately, many of these folks found themselves out of work in the last decade.  I was surprised when going back to school, and expecting to be the "old guy" to find many students in there 40's or 50's just trying to get back to where they were.

While I have decent confidence in my design abilities, I've never  
been a very good technician.  My soldering is slow and lumpy and my troubleshooting skills aren't as sharp as the advanced technicians.

Anyway, I guess it's all relative.

[Ronny]

Soldering is like anything else the more the you do it, the better you get. It's a skill no doubt, but not necessarily a qualification for an operator. Technician maybe.