Topic: 48 Hz and 96 Hz (Read 4595 times)

lagerfeldt · « **on:** February 10, 2006, 08:57:00 PM »

Okay, I know this sounds like a noob idiotic statement, but I just can't help noticing how many of my favourite tracks have a clear bump at exactly 48 and 96 Hz +/- 1 Hz.

Pingu · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2006, 09:00:02 PM »

Im thinking kick drum harmonics

what do ya rekon

lagerfeldt · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2006, 09:58:20 PM »

Yes, certainly.

But I was wondering why exactly 48 and 96? They are harmonic/doubled but it seems funny that it's these exact frequencies in so many tracks, and in genres as different as pop, dance and rock music (I have a broad taste in music).

Maybe it's like that myth about 326 Hz being the universal muddy frequency, or something. Razz

Pingu · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2006, 10:24:19 PM »

Im sure someone with years more experience than i will put an end to the mystery.

compasspnt · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:02:51 PM »

Hmmm...

48 and 96...

...just add a "k" on the end, and...

...hmmm...something strange here...

Where is JohnnyB when we need him?

OTR-jkl · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:04:10 PM »

Really? Almost every track I see has the peak at either 65Hz or 86Hz...

Pingu · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:09:44 PM »

lagerfeldt wrote on Sat, 11 February 2006 09:57

Okay, I know this sounds like a noob idiotic statement, but I just can't help noticing how many of my favourite tracks have a clear bump at exactly 48 and 96 Hz +/- 1 Hz.

How much of a bump are we talking?

Fenris Wulf · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:35:05 PM »

You might be seeing Apogee UV22 dithering, which uses a tone at exactly half the sample rate.

Teddy G. · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2006, 11:36:08 PM »

+/- 4hz???

Is your AC(Wall) power at 50hz? 48(or so) would be the "main" and 96(Or thereabouts) would be the "first harmonic" of such "transmitted AC signal", no matter voltage. Are you using a UPS on your computer and everything connected to it(Might help)? In the US it's 60hz, 120hz, 240hz, etc.(Each harmonic MUCH weaker than the main frequency.), that have to be dealt with. As my work is non-critical in this region I have the luxury of being able to just notch/shelf below 75hz(My Mackie mixer and audio software has buttons/settings for this common problem.), which takes care of most of it. If it IS critical it may take some knowledgeable electrical work..? Your friendly, neighborhood electrician may be able to help with this? Particularly one with experience supplying "clean power" to computers. At least one of our local electrical companies deals alot in "professional computer installations". Even your AC power provider may have suggestions - or even come out and do tests - at least to make sure all is as good as they are required to provide? Advice, at least, should be affordable to free. Correcting the "problem", to your satisfaction..? That may cost...

TG

Jerry Tubb · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2006, 12:35:01 AM »

lagerfeldt wrote on Fri, 10 February 2006 19:57

Okay, I know this sounds like a noob idiotic statement, but I just can't help noticing how many of my favourite tracks have a clear bump at exactly 48 and 96 Hz +/- 1 Hz.

Equivalent to a low and middle G on Fender Bass... 49Hz & 98Hz.

Pingu · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2006, 01:18:18 AM »

now we are getting somewhere

mikepecchio · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2006, 01:50:15 AM »

are you using an analyzer to spot those frequencies? could be the resolution of your analyzer. FFT is most coarse at low freqs. try creating a tone sweep of constant amplitude (a bass drop) and see if it apears to peak at those frequencies.

Ronny · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2006, 03:24:05 AM »

compasspnt wrote on Fri, 10 February 2006 23:02

Hmmm...

48 and 96...

...just add a "k" on the end, and...

...hmmm...something strange here...

Where is JohnnyB when we need him?

It's embedded in the software and allows 48k and 96k sample rates to have the same harmonic structure.

Bobro · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2006, 05:54:54 AM »

Jerry Tubb wrote on Sat, 11 February 2006 05:35

lagerfeldt wrote on Fri, 10 February 2006 19:57

Okay, I know this sounds like a noob idiotic statement, but I just can't help noticing how many of my favourite tracks have a clear bump at exactly 48 and 96 Hz +/- 1 Hz.

Equivalent to a low and middle G on Fender Bass... 49Hz & 98Hz.

That's a good musical answer. IIRC G in 12 tone equal temperament at A442 would be right about there, have to look it up. Anyway that's where a lot of "bumps" come from- the music itself.

Also a lot of auto-pilot mixing cliches come from assuming that all music is centered around a handfull of guitar-handy chords, and a standard trap/bass/guitar/tenor setup. Like "cut at 125 to clear mud", try that on a bass voice, or in the key of B natural.

And compressor presets on plugins seem to assume a small range of tempos, what a joke because of course the release has to vibe with the tempo.

-Bobro

lagerfeldt · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2006, 08:32:05 AM »

Let me clarify:

I'm talking about analyzing a file in the DAW using Waves PAZ, which I reckon is a pretty accurate tool.

In a surprisingly large number of my favourite reference tracks there's a clear peak in the frequency range at exactly 48 Hz and 96 Hz (not kHz). What more, this is not necessarily real instruments but synth music too.

The two peaks seem to stem mostly from the kick drum. So what I'm getting at is this: there seems to be a harmonic relationship between the two frequencies (obviously doubled). But I was wondering why exactly 48 and 96 Hz as opposed to e.g. 60 and 120 Hz or something else.

So far my conclusion is that there must be some universally pleasing about these points. Okay, go ahead and kill me.

Dave Cooper · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2006, 04:14:46 PM »

Maybe they are all using the same kick drum sample?

Fenris Wulf · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2006, 05:59:32 PM »

lagerfeldt wrote on Sat, 11 February 2006 13:32

Let me clarify:

I'm talking about analyzing a file in the DAW using Waves PAZ, which I reckon is a pretty accurate tool.

Nope. Worst analyzer I've ever seen. The display is pretty much unuseable.

lagerfeldt · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2006, 06:03:53 PM »

How so..

You can both zoom and move around on the display, so you can see details.

You can also do a print out of the frequencies.

I haven't found any reason not to trust the PAZ.

UnderTow · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2006, 06:32:05 PM »

Maybe you just like music in G. Smile

And I would agree that PAZ isn't a very good analyzer. It isn't very precise graphicaly. Admitedly you can zoom in but still ...

UnderTow

bblackwood · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2006, 06:32:44 PM »

Dave Cooper wrote on Sun, 12 February 2006 15:14

Maybe they are all using the same kick drum sample?

Haha, that's probably the most logical answer so far...

lagerfeldt · « **Reply #20 on:** February 12, 2006, 06:39:28 PM »

Nice one

Pingu · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2006, 08:06:22 PM »

Fenris Wulf. wrote on Mon, 13 February 2006 06:59

lagerfeldt wrote on Sat, 11 February 2006 13:32

Let me clarify:

I'm talking about analyzing a file in the DAW using Waves PAZ, which I reckon is a pretty accurate tool.

Nope. Worst analyzer I've ever seen. The display is pretty much unuseable.

I hate PAZ

Jerry Tubb · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2006, 08:20:52 PM »

lagerfeldt wrote on Sun, 12 February 2006 17:03

How so..
You can both zoom and move around on the display, so you can see details.
You can also do a print out of the frequencies.
I haven't found any reason not to trust the PAZ.

I Agree... the PAZ is very good ! There may be better ones... with multicolored 3D holographic displays... Very Happy

On the PAZ the LF resolution can be a little vague, with 10Hz resolution at best.

I think we all agree that the best analyzers are mounted on each side of our heads, hopefully the grey matter that's between them, and of course aural memory. And that any visual analyzer should be used sparingly and not as a crutch.

Didn't we go thru all this on a recent thread already?

Cheers

p.s. I still like my tuning fork as a pitch reference.

lagerfeldt · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2006, 08:22:27 PM »

Jerry Tubb wrote on Mon, 13 February 2006 02:20

I think we all agree that the best analyzers are mounted on each side of our heads, hopefully the grey matter that's between them, and of course aural memory. And that any visual analyzer should be used sparingly and not as a crutch.

Didn't we go thru all this on a recent thread already?

Preaching to the choir Jerry

Jerry Tubb · « **Reply #24 on:** February 12, 2006, 08:26:34 PM »

lagerfeldt wrote on Sun, 12 February 2006 19:22

Preaching to the choir Jerry

Ooops! Sorry, I'll step down from the soapbox now... old habits, hard to break.

Best Regards

p.s. did you have the LF resolution set to 10Hz or 20 or 40 on your recent analysis?

lagerfeldt · « **Reply #25 on:** February 13, 2006, 04:34:35 AM »

10Hz, why?

resolectric · « **Reply #26 on:** February 13, 2006, 08:17:53 AM »

mikepecchio wrote on Sat, 11 February 2006 06:50

are you using an analyzer to spot those frequencies? could be the resolution of your analyzer. FFT is most coarse at low freqs. try creating a tone sweep of constant amplitude (a bass drop) and see if it apears to peak at those frequencies.

This seemed to be a good idea and went unnoticed in this thread, i guess.
Why don't you do what mikepecchio suggested?

Thomas W. Bethel · « **Reply #27 on:** February 13, 2006, 10:11:11 AM »

A lot of rock albums come in for mastering with lots of bass at 60 Hz I guess it is to make the hum louder (more of that analog sound everyone is looking for) Hip hop and Reggae 80 and 120 Hz. For some reason lots of stuff is coming in with really low frequencies (below 20 Hz) I am guessing air conditioning rumble or excavations near the studio. Saw a good one the other day with really nice comb filtering happening. The vocals were recorded in the bathroom with an omni microphone (WHY?). I also got one with a 10 db boost at 100 Hz and 10 KHz (the salesman at GC told my client that all the really top engineers use these frequencies but it is a closely guarded secret) (oh well the cats out of the bag now)

I think the other answers are correct. It is musically related.

masterhse · « **Reply #28 on:** February 14, 2006, 06:58:43 PM »

Aren't those frequencies part of the universal "good sounding curve" used by software like Har-Bal? Smile

SirDonut · « **Reply #29 on:** February 14, 2006, 07:23:56 PM »

Thomas W. Bethel wrote on Mon, 13 February 2006 15:11

I also got one with a 10 db boost at 100 Hz and 10 KHz (the salesman at GC told my client that all the really top engineers use these frequencies but it is a closely guarded secret)

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Author Topic: 48 Hz and 96 Hz (Read 4595 times)