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Author Topic: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?  (Read 14909 times)

Dave Martin

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2006, 11:53:23 PM »

Consul wrote on Mon, 06 March 2006 15:16

I think the problem is not so much that "amateur" means "unprofessional," as that is technically correct.


I would respectfully disagree with that statement and would suggest that a more accurate synonym for "amateur" would be "non-professional" rather than "unprofessional".
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Michael Durovic

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2006, 04:03:41 AM »

hi all,
as I'm just 23, professional sound-tech (without degree), I'm not supposed to ramble here (with long-life-experience hobbyists mixed with highly professionals) but...

synonymous (if I do write it right, LOL ) means standing instead of something because it's similar (at least in german) and therefore non-pro or un-pro can't replace amateur in it's original meaning.

as appendix I'd like to stress out that a professional or professionalism to me means that even if a band treats you like a dog you still do like your job because you like the things to do.

If a pro isn't a amateur too, he chose the wrong job. (what probably many did in our business, because it's a game with images, minds, hearts)

If a hobbyist doesn't get to the stage of an amateur he'll probably quit soon.

I do have a wife. I'm a sound pro (of course not compareable to most guys 30s upward), I once had the necessity to write songs for keep going (used it as "ease")(no critique on the doctor, he doesn't want to be a pro so it's gonna work for him probably the rest of his life) then discovered it is type of unhealthy to my mind (because I wanted to be a pro too) and since then I use music as my way of thinking. I really do just know what I think when I hear it Wink

all my respect to you seasoned humans, wished I were born some decades earlier... (seriously)
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Tidewater

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2006, 06:25:18 AM »

If a band treats me like a dog, they may never want to record again, after their ears stop ringing.

Smile


M
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Consul

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2006, 02:20:04 PM »

Dave Martin wrote on Mon, 06 March 2006 21:53

I would respectfully disagree with that statement and would suggest that a more accurate synonym for "amateur" would be "non-professional" rather than "unprofessional".



Okay, I can live with that.  Cool  At any rate, this is all semantics and straying from the original question.

You know, Mixerman over on his board makes mention of how important a producer is. We're talking a good producer, who has a real vision for the music, and not some crank from a label. He actually makes a very good point: That an experienced set of ears can hear things in the music that the band misses. You know, that whole "forest/trees" issue.

So when I'm sitting in my home studio producing myself, how can I get some input on what I'm doing from others, to help me stop examining trees and give the forest a look? A full-fledged producer is out, simply because of cost, but maybe there's a way someone in their home studio can seek some guidance from outside his goldfish bowl.

Social networking may be the latest buzzword, but there really is some value to it, if it's applied correctly.

More later...
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Darren Landrum

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic." - Dave Barry

Fibes

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2006, 02:42:17 PM »

Quote:

but maybe there's a way someone in their home studio can seek some guidance from outside his goldfish bowl.



There's a forum at the Marsh for song critique moderated by Aardvark,  Bob Olhsson,  Eric Sarafin and dwoz i'm sure you'd get some crits over there.

Or you could post a link right here to your stuff.

FWIW an outside producer is not always needed, especially when you have a great engineer and your own vision. Then again there are some folks who are "budding" producers who will tell you it's the end all be all.

Too many cooks sometimes yields salt soup.
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Fibes
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Consul

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2006, 02:56:29 PM »

But what happens when you are the musician, the engineer, and the one with the vision? People like Larry Fast and Jean-Michel Jarre were able to pull off some nice stuff that way, so it's not impossible, but Larry has at times talked about the input he got from other people and how it helped him along.

Forums like this one are useful for critiques, and can often help, but I was thinking of something a little more one-on-one, with someone of appropriate ilk. I write prog rock stuff, and as a result, I would not go to Joey Ramone for a critique. Adrian Belew, on the other hand...

That's just an example, but I think it gets the idea across.
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Darren Landrum

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic." - Dave Barry

Fibes

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2006, 03:14:13 PM »

Sometimes the best crits come from music listeners.

Other times it's from pros.

I'm lucky to be surrounded by talented folks who aren't afraid to speak their mind and also know when something is intentionally a certain way.

Think of some folks who you'd trust to listen and throw a little listening party with whatever refreshments you think they might require.

Personally it's Vodka or Belgian Ale for me.

Heck, rent a studio for a few hours that has an engineer/producer you dig and just do some listening on a different system with him/her listening with you. Some of my best "light bulb" moments are when other folks are standing over my shoulder.

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Fibes
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"You can like it, or not like it."
The Studio

  http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewArtist ?id=155759887
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Consul

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2006, 05:06:53 PM »

Wow, someone who gets what it is I'm trying to say!  Cool

I suppose there are plenty of options for those like myself. Like I said earlier, I'm really not planning a living in this, but a large part of being an amateur is self-improvement, and feedback from others is an important aspect of self-improvement. This goes for both audio quality as well as the songs themselves.

I think I'll stop there for now, because what I want to say next needs its own thread.
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Darren Landrum

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic." - Dave Barry

Fibes

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2006, 05:18:32 PM »

Consul wrote on Tue, 07 March 2006 17:06

Wow, someone who gets what it is I'm trying to say!  Cool



Good luck man, and yes, I get what you say because I do what you do. The reason I got into recording is partly to do my own stuff but also to provide a place locally for musicians that wanted THEIR records to be THEIR records.

Now i hardly have the time to pick up a guitar unless i'm playing on the session.

look at my sig, it's my band, my production and the biggest PITA i could imagine. Nevertheless i'm glad I did it.

Next time we're gonna pay Terry. Hahahahaha.
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Fibes
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"You can like it, or not like it."
The Studio

  http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewArtist ?id=155759887
http://cdbaby.com/cd/superhorse
http://cdbaby.com/cd/superhorse2

Tidewater

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #54 on: March 08, 2006, 12:50:42 AM »

 Laughing

Next time? I thought you swore off 'next time'..

Surprised

Hey, didn't you shoot your drummer?


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willpowrd

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #55 on: March 08, 2006, 05:21:15 PM »

Consul wrote on Tue, 07 March 2006 16:06

...I'm really not planning a living in this, but a large part of being an amateur is self-improvement, and feedback from others is an important aspect of self-improvement. This goes for both audio quality as well as the songs themselves.


Self-improvement, feedback from others and continued learning is part of being professional, too.  If you aren't learning you're getting stale and that usually means opportunities go elsewhere.
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Tom C

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2006, 08:53:22 AM »

Consul wrote on Tue, 07 March 2006 13:56

But what happens when you are the musician, the engineer, and the one with the vision? People like Larry Fast and Jean-Michel Jarre were able to pull off some nice stuff that way, so it's not impossible, but Larry has at times talked about the input he got from other people and how it helped him along.



If you want to be better than average, you have to be better
than average in composing, performing, recording, mixing and
mastering.
The probability of this is very rare, and now imagine you want
to become VERY good in all this.

There are VERY few talents around that can do this.
And no, JMJ is not one of them (he'd lots of feedback from
Michel Geiss).

On the other hand I think it's a good idea to try to become as
good as possible on all these topics, e.g. you'll make much
better mixes once you have some mastering experience and know
what to avoid Smile

And that's the point when you'll know what should better be done
by experts to get the most out of your work.

Tom
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Tom

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Consul

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2006, 02:04:32 PM »

Tom Crowning wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 06:53

If you want to be better than average, you have to be better
than average in composing, performing, recording, mixing and
mastering.


The mastering is best left to someone else, I think.

As for recording and mixing, time is on my side. There is no schedule from a label to adhere to. It's all about my musical memories and my hobby, after all. I'm not even out to release an album. I just plan to put songs up on a website as they are finished.

Quote:

There are VERY few talents around that can do this.
And no, JMJ is not one of them (he'd lots of feedback from
Michel Geiss).


Well, I mentioned that Larry Fast had lots of outside input, and I have no doubt that JMJ did as well.

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Darren Landrum

"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic." - Dave Barry

maxim

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2006, 04:02:54 AM »

tom wrote:

"If you want to be better than average, you have to be better
than average in composing, performing, recording, mixing and
mastering."

i don't think that's necessarily true

if you are better than average at all of those, you would be truly exceptional

you can be better than average that any one of those and just average at the rest, and still be better than average

but who wants to be average, anyway


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Tom C

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Re: Is this music/recording thing just a hobby?
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2006, 04:41:15 PM »

maxim wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 10:02

tom wrote:

"If you want to be better than average, you have to be better
than average in composing, performing, recording, mixing and
mastering."

i don't think that's necessarily true

if you are better than average at all of those, you would be truly exceptional

you can be better than average that any one of those and just average at the rest, and still be better than average

but who wants to be average, anyway





What you say is true, but when you think of all these steps in a
production as some kind of chain then your chain is as good as
the weakest part of it.
Some parts may be not as important as others, but I think in
general that's true for most productions.
If not there wouldn't be specialists around for nearly everything.


Tom



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