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Author Topic: Question for Dunlavy users  (Read 10574 times)

EP

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Question for Dunlavy users
« on: February 01, 2006, 05:26:15 PM »

I am considering buying a used pair of dunlavy SC-4a's. Since Dunlavy is out of production/biz is it still feasable to repair them? Were there a lot of custom tweaks to the drivers that would make it hard to match an off the shelf replacement driver, etc.?

I know a few of y'all are still using the 4's or 5's.......


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Mark Donahue

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2006, 06:57:01 PM »

Eric,
I have both SC-IV's (at home) and V's (Studio).
AFAIK, you can source the drivers from Madisound, but they are not matched the way the Dunlavy drivers were matched from the factory. I suspect that one could build a simple test jig to match these speakers. It doesn't seem like rocket science, just a PITA to buy a bunch of drivers and send back the ones that you don't use.
Given the current prices of Dunlavy's on the used market, they are a real bargain, even if you have to go out and match a few drivers.  I bought my SC-IV's for $1500 for the pair and they have been working fine for the past year. I went ahead and bought 4 sets of M/HF drivers and 2 sets of woofers so I have spares till the end of time.
All the best,
-mark


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Mark Donahue
Chief Mastering Engineer
Soundmirror, Inc.
Boston, MA
http://www.soundmirror.com
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EP

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2006, 08:45:29 PM »

Mark Donahue wrote on Wed, 01 February 2006 23:57


Given the current prices of Dunlavy's on the used market, they are a real bargain, even if you have to go out and match a few drivers.  I bought my SC-IV's for $1500 for the pair and they have been working fine for the past year.



Thanks for the comments. Wow, $1500 is a deal! The 4a's I am looking at are not nearly that cheap, although they are one owner, and local eliminating a heck of a shipping bill.

I'll give madisound a jingle.

Cheers
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mastermind

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2006, 01:00:46 AM »

As long as you're careful they're pretty durable.

I've had my IVa's for almost 6 years now and I've never had to replace a driver - but then I don't listen all that loud and I'm careful to lower volume when switching crap....

Bi-amp them and throw a chunk of power at them and they'll be happy.

t

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trevor sadler
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Ed Littman

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2006, 01:37:52 PM »

not sure if some of the drivers are the same in the 3a's, but I only had to replace the tweeters twice in the 4 years I've had them(damn dither test Rolling Eyes).  those are Vifa d27tg & easily available.
Ed
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joeaudio

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2006, 09:51:45 PM »

I ran a pair of SC-V's at my mastering studio for five years.
When i finally had to replace the tweets I was suprised at the
cheap Vifa drivers John had chosen to use. Upon further investigation and somr more unscrewing I found that he had used these inexpensive drivers throughout the cabinets.
Don't get me wrong I liked the way they sounded and mastered hundreds of fine sounding material using them but I was dissapionted
at his decision to use such cheap drivers (matched or not)
I guess he made up for it by superior cabinet design (the
veneer peeled off mine by the way) and good xovers.
I'm a B&w man now.

Joe Yannece
Classic Sound
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bblackwood

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2006, 10:00:34 PM »

joeaudio wrote on Thu, 02 February 2006 20:51

I'm a B&w man now.

Hard to go wrong there - which ones do you use?
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Brad Blackwood
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Mark Donahue

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2006, 01:21:20 AM »

joeaudio wrote on Thu, 02 February 2006 21:51

I ran a pair of SC-V's at my mastering studio for five years.
When i finally had to replace the tweets I was suprised at the
cheap Vifa drivers John had chosen to use. Upon further investigation and somr more unscrewing I found that he had used these inexpensive drivers throughout the cabinets.
Don't get me wrong I liked the way they sounded and mastered hundreds of fine sounding material using them but I was dissapionted
at his decision to use such cheap drivers (matched or not)
I guess he made up for it by superior cabinet design (the
veneer peeled off mine by the way) and good xovers.
I'm a B&w man now.

Joe Yannece
Classic Sound


Hey joe,
I figured I'd hear from you on this one. I actually have Joe's old speakers in my surround setup. He's right about the cost of the drivers, they are plain jane and pretty cheap. (Not necessarily a bad thing...)
I scoured the east coast for Dunlavys last year and came up with 4 sets, 3 SC-V's and a set of SC-IV's that I use at home. The interesting thing I found was that the speakers all lined up pretty close when I tested them in my room. Joe had replaced the mid bass drivers for a driver with a little more balls(for higher SPL's) but when I put the stock drivers back in, they all matched VERY close from speaker to speaker. I have speakers from 3 different vintages and even then they all line up sonically.
The fit and finish vary greatly. The later speakers are actually much better in this regard. I've had to repair the veneers on 2 of the 8 speakers I purchased.
I have asked this before, but if anybody has a single SC-V floating around there, let me know. I'd like to find a mate to the one that sits in the store room. Then all I'll have to do is  convince my girlfriend that they are really not that much bigger than the SC-IV's.
All the best,
mark
All the best,
Mark
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Mark Donahue
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Soundmirror, Inc.
Boston, MA
http://www.soundmirror.com
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2006, 03:05:57 AM »

In John's defense, he chose drivers based on minimal resonance and then bought hundreds keeping only a tiny fraction that matched each of several versions of his crossovers.

When you include the test time and the rejects in the cost, these are not exactly cheap drivers! He told me that more expensive drivers used resonances to soup up their response however this caused the overall system accuracy to be lower than using the more consistent cherry-picked cheap drivers.

masterlab

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2006, 08:32:00 AM »

Can anyone comment on the differences between Dunlavy SC-Vs and Duntech Sovereign 2001s?

Driver wise and sonically?

We have a set of Sovereigns and 2 sets of Crown Princes which are actually very close, but when I listened to SC-Vs at Robins room (www.24-96.net), I thought they are totally different from the Sovereigns.

He now uses Lipinski 707s as we do for our surround work, bit I still like the Sovereigns for stereo work.
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2006, 06:30:38 PM »

The Sovereigns use Dynaudio drivers except for the tweeter which is a 3/4" Skanspeak.

joeaudio

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2006, 09:50:02 PM »

Hard to go wrong there - which ones do you use?

The New 703's.
My parter across the hall from me (Tony Gillis)
has the 802's and I always loved them.
Particularly the natural and open sounding mid-range.
Unfortunately they were out of my price range.
When I heard the 703's were being built with
a midrage "inspired" by the 802 I auditioned
them.
I run them with a Rotel RB1090 (380x2into8)and
an M&K Sub.
I'm very big on bang-for-the-buck.
I couldn't be happier, this is the easiest system i've
worked on in my career.
It always translates well.

Joe Yannece
Classis Sound
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Dave Davis

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2006, 09:42:09 AM »

John Dunlavy makes no apologies or pretense for his choice of drivers.  Older Dunlavys relied on dynaudio drivers until dynaudio got upset with the hassle (John returned a huge percentage of drivers that were out of spec).  His position is that at this point in time and technology the challenge is one of QC and design, not magical materials and construction voodoo.  The Dunlavy line is to a great degree experimental proof of that hypothesis.

One reason many Duns on the used market are so cheap is that the owners have been forced to replace carefully selected drivers with off-the-shelf vifa's, lacking the expertise and facility to match them.  Afterwards the speakers are easily bested in a shoot out with a less-tired, factory-fresh newcomer.  If you look at the documentation that ships with the higher-end Duns you realize that the QC doesn't stop with driver selection, but extends to matching every component, and testing them individually AND together.  When you bought a replacement tweet from Dunlavy they weren't especially expensive, and they recommended you replace it's partner at the same time.  The replacements matched the originals as much as possible, with stock on their shelves.  You could get individual drivers, but the results would vary, depending on age, use and environment of the survivor.

I'd heard that John was selling replacement drivers on his own, but haven't heard from him.  He supposedly retained the records and measurements from units sold, so he can match them to each other and your cabinet.  THAT is what makes a Dunlavy or Duntech speaker sound so special: tuning all the parts to achieve a measurable spec.  This accounts for audible variations in resonance, response and performance in cabinets, drivers and electronics.  While the wood and drivers change with time, and could require re-measurment at some point, the largest variables with his designs are the drivers in general, and the tweets in particular.  Theoretically any Dun could be returned to factory-fresh specs at any point in time by John with a simple and relatively affordable driver swap.  An owner with calibrated measurements of his originals in situ could do the same with some patience and hassle (swapping).

The Dynaudio drivers were nearly indestructible... even the tweets could handle absurd, unlistenable levels.  My mains use these, and have survived events that should have killed them many times over.  My surrounds use the vifas, and sound great, but I doubt they'd survive the abuse their older brothers have taken.  Still, it's a fair trade off: the more recent Vifa-driven duns cost less, relatively speaking, than the older Dynaudio-powered ones, but also had extended frequency response and improved measurable performance.  It wasn't a big step backwards, just a fair move sideways.

-d-
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EP

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2006, 01:34:16 PM »

Now we are getting at what I suspected: a great deal of matching went into driver selection. The 4a's that I am looking at are very nice one owner speakers in the living room of an older hifi guy....so they are not likely abused. Its just that after spending a lot of time getting my NTP 179-120's restored I am a little shy with out of production gear.... Confused

Anyway, thanks for weighing in on this all
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Bob Olhsson

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Re: Question for Dunlavy users
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2006, 01:46:28 PM »

John told me that he had looked really hard at building his own drivers but had come to the conclusion that nobody could build more consistent drivers than the top Danish manufacturers. The advantage in using them was that there was a big market for his leftovers while there wouldn't be any market for unusable drivers that he had manufactured himself.

It's important to understand that by "unusable" he meant they didn't precisely match what his system designs called for but were still well within their manufacturer's spec. and not defective in the slightest.
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