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[Fibes]

Is to use a lot of small things that lock together.

Clearing out sonic real estate isn't always for the mix stage/eq. Start now before it's too late.

It's about relative volume.

Sometimes all you need is 3-5k.--- yeah sometimes.

Why use more?

Harvey likes flashlights for analogies and it works here too. Use the filters so that you only see what you need to in each element.

A bass coupled with a tiny guitar sound can sound like a huge guitar.

Two bigs can make a tiny...

The most beautiful clouds are lonely and discrete with a blue backdrop.

Shoot me.

[floodstage]

I've been scooping the bass out of the bass to make the bass sound bigger a lot lately.

Go figure.

[rankus]

Recording things at a low volume... (Like electric gtrs)

So that in the mix you are adding amplitude rather than attenuating...

IE:  If you Record a screaming Marshal on ten, and then when played back on the listeners stereo it is being attenuated... makes things "feel small".... Instead, record at as low a volume as possible while retaining the "sound", and when it's played back it will be "turned up" .... (The brain can sense this)

If you want LOUD.... Turn it down....

[Consul]

Sometimes less is more?  

Arranging is an art unto itself. It's harder to make a sparser arrangement work well than to just throw more stuff into the mix.

[maxim]

hire a publicist

kevin wrote:

"The most beautiful clouds are lonely and discrete with a blue backdrop."

very zen

[Fibes]

maxim wrote on Tue, 31 January 2006 18:08

hire a publicist

Hahahahahah!  Huh?


It does start at the arrangement but it also starts at sound selection too. Much like a mountain range each musical element requires its own place in the sky to be admired. Plateaus don't read quite as well or are quite as dynamic.

[George_]

Quote:

IE: If you Record a screaming Marshal on ten, and then when played back on the listeners stereo it is being attenuated... makes things "feel small".... Instead, record at as low a volume as possible while retaining the "sound", and when it's played back it will be "turned up" .... (The brain can sense this) If you want LOUD.... Turn it down....

thats intersgin

[Bodoc]

IMHO, after 40 + years of experience playing both bass and violin:

1. Play more simply (less busy).  Huge things (like heavyweights) don't move like flyweights.  May be psycho-acoustics...but it works!  This also gives acoustic space ("air")around the notes, increasing the perceived size of the music.  As well, you are less likely to muddy or crowd low frequencies that give the sound mass.

2. Rick is absolutely correct!  Play at lower volume/sound pressure levels.  This requires great touch because playing flaws (string noise, other signal to noise problems) will be magnified by the boosting of the signal necessary to achieve actual "loudness" (as opposed to the usual attenuation of the incoming signal).

3. Record in the appropriate room...a little, weany, dry space will not let the sound bloom naturally.  Yes, one could use ambience plugins, etc---but the resonance of the recording space can really inspire HUGE sound and will influence the willingness of musicians to do steps 1 and 2.

4. Playing style--I have used a baritone violin (regular fiddle with thicker strings tuned an octave lower).  By using little or slow cello-like vibrato, the ear hears it as being larger than the frequently thin, rapid, warbly vibrato used by many violinists.  Check out the huge sound of Allison Krauss and Darol Anger--neither one plays loudly, but both use vibrato sparingly.
In the classical world, check out the solo Bach partita and sonata recordings of Sigiswald Kuijken who uses almost no vibrato at all.  They sound immense.

[j.hall]

thread topic:
The best way to make things sound big.

answer:

compression.

next question please.

[Vertigo]

Quote:

IE: If you Record a screaming Marshal on ten, and then when played back on the listeners stereo it is being attenuated... makes things "feel small".... Instead, record at as low a volume as possible while retaining the "sound", and when it's played back it will be "turned up" .... (The brain can sense this) If you want LOUD.... Turn it down....

That's a pretty cool concept, but as a guitarist I see some issues with the approach. Firstly, I find good amps with a tube power section sound better the harder you push them, although I have found some cool tricks for getting more current through the tubes without the additional volume - like converting dual and triple recto's into singles, variacs, etc.

Also, what about speaker excursion? This is a contributing factor in tone as well.

I'll play around with this and A/B some tracks this weekend and see what sounds I get... Thanks for the tip!

-Lance

[rankus]

Vertigo wrote on Fri, 03 February 2006 14:49

Quote: IE: If you Record a screaming Marshal on ten, and then when played back on the listeners stereo it is being attenuated... makes things "feel small".... Instead, record at as low a volume as possible while retaining the "sound", and when it's played back it will be "turned up" .... (The brain can sense this) If you want LOUD.... Turn it down.... That's a pretty cool concept, but as a guitarist I see some issues with the approach. Firstly, I find good amps with a tube power section sound better the harder you push them, although I have found some cool tricks for getting more current through the tubes without the additional volume - like converting dual and triple recto's into singles, variacs, etc. Also, what about speaker excursion? This is a contributing factor in tone as well. I'll play around with this and A/B some tracks this weekend and see what sounds I get... Thanks for the tip! -Lance

Yes. Smaller low wattage amps work better for this... Power soaks can be usefull as well...

As noted, some guitar tones require running amps full out... but not all.... try turning the master down as far as you can before the guitarist threatens your life  

[NelsonL]

rankus wrote on Fri, 03 February 2006 16:27

Vertigo wrote on Fri, 03 February 2006 14:49 Quote: IE: If you Record a screaming Marshal on ten, and then when played back on the listeners stereo it is being attenuated... makes things "feel small".... Instead, record at as low a volume as possible while retaining the "sound", and when it's played back it will be "turned up" .... (The brain can sense this) If you want LOUD.... Turn it down.... That's a pretty cool concept, but as a guitarist I see some issues with the approach. Firstly, I find good amps with a tube power section sound better the harder you push them, although I have found some cool tricks for getting more current through the tubes without the additional volume - like converting dual and triple recto's into singles, variacs, etc. Also, what about speaker excursion? This is a contributing factor in tone as well. I'll play around with this and A/B some tracks this weekend and see what sounds I get... Thanks for the tip! -Lance Yes. Smaller low wattage amps work better for this... Power soaks can be usefull as well... As noted, some guitar tones require running amps full out... but not all.... try turning the master down as far as you can before the guitarist threatens your life

Also, try pulling a pair of output tubes from 80-100 watt amps for 1/2 (or so) power. Carefull which ones though.

[Andy Simpson]

This is mostly a question of dynamic range and gain-structure.

Quiet vocals always sound bigger than loud vocals, same with drums, pianos, guitars, etc.

AT THE SAME PLAYBACK VOLUME (which is what we all use, right?).

Ask the singer to sing gently, drummer to drum gently, guitarist to use less distortion. You'll get a much much bigger sounding record.

To make a photographic analagy, if you take a photo of a whole wood, how big do the flowers look? And if you take a close-up of a single flower?

When viewed using the same size of print, scale counts for alot.

Anyway, so what are the biggest sounding records ever made?

Andy

PS, compression makes a mix smaller, in my experience.

[wwittman]

In my experience, the answer is : ARRANGEMENT

I almost never 'scoop" out anything other than the low mids on close mic'ed drums.

I tend to believe in having EVERY sound big and wide and real.
then it's up to the music to make it all speak clearly together.

[Joe Black]

andy_simpson wrote on Sun, 12 February 2006 16:34

To make a photographic analagy, if you take a photo of a whole wood, how big do the flowers look? And if you take a close-up of a single flower?

Reminds of of why I didn't pursue that MFA. If you wanted a picture of the flower, why did you take a picture of the whole  wood?
Jeff
BFA, Photography, 1982