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[jimmyjazz]

If you want your name in the credits, what's wrong with having it there as the producer?  Hell, if you know your band as much as you say you do (and I would hope so), then I think you'd probably be a big enough contributor to the owner's engineering process that he wouldn't mind you calling yourself an "assistant engineer" after the fact.  It's your record, so I don't think he could stop you from doing so, anyway.  Of course, I wouldn't do so if you think it will piss him off and you want to work there again.

Regardless, I don't think "credits" matter as much as you think they do.

If it was me, I'd be a polite contributor to the process, more as producer than engineer, but make sure this guy sees that you have engineering chops.  When it's all said and done, I'd ask him if he would consider having you come on board to run a tracking date, or assist him, or whatever.

[scottoliphant]

i think there have been some good comments made, now you just have to make the call. your name will be on it regardless. If you are trying to drum up business for YOUR slowly coming together studio, then record it yourself in your garage. people that will want to record with you are going to expect "zero return" sound, which is going to sound a lot different than your home set up. I only say this because I'm in the process of doing the same thing (for past few years). but, i have to show people stuff i recorded at my place, which up until recently was on an old otari 1/2" 8 track. if you are good and the band has fun, your name will get out there. At some point the technology behind it becomes transparent to the artist and they will just talk about you, not the various gear in your rack.  It sounds like you already have a built in fan base (for 8 month world tour). where were the other records recorded?

[meverylame]

Yeah... not such a good a idea. As someone who's actually been in the studio, there's no way you can successfully play a command performance AND engineer there. First off are you familiar with the tape machines they are using?? The a-80 is great but an odd machine to operate. Not something that you want to dick with, especially on your dime. and the 1100?? Fuck.. SATAN. Not to mention THEIR neve. It is effed. Like literally there is something wrong with almost every channel. It might have changed since I've been there last, but in summation. LET THEM DO IT. Really, your band will thank you.
The world will thank you for not releasing another shitty cd.

Edit: That whole "the world" thing sounds dickish, but wasn't meant to be. Oh well...

[xonlocust]

should you choose to go through with it, you might plan ahead of time what your channel layouts/mic/pre/compressor choices will be. of course it'll change a little bit as you listen (this works here, this doesnt here) but i know for me, my first time engineering in a fancy studio was overwhelming with the sheer number of options availble to me.  

i'm confused, are you in the band or just recording it?  i'll say this - i've done the recording of my own bands and for important releases i've always used an outside (better than me) engineer, and learned a lot from them.  if you're just recording it i say go for it. if it's your band... i dunno.  good luck regardless. there's too much to worry about. i feel like i'm barely hanging on as it is, though you could very well be a much better engineer than me.  i've always felt my musicianship suffered when i was trying to engineer and vice-versa.

if it is your band, why can't you convince one of your other bands that you record at the house to go back to zero and be the eng then?  you'll make ins with the house guy on this first session, learn his techniques as you're playing "producer" and then be in good shape in 3 months when your happy and satisfied repeat clients want to "take it to the next  level".

good luck regardless!

[Vertigo]

Sounds like a huge cluster to me. I'm leery of using any piece of gear I haven't used before on a session, let alone an entire studio's worth.

I've found that one of the key elements of getting great recordings is maintaining your objectivity. And this means working QUICK, before you've heard the same sounds so many times that you lose perspective. And you won't be able to do that when you're kludging your way through a bunch of unfamiliar gear (trust me - I've been there).

I think you're putting yourself at a serious disadvantage as well as setting yourself up as a target in the event that things don't turn out "great". If the recording doesn't turn out exactly the way you and your band want it to then all of the blame rests squarely on you. And you could be hearing about it for a loooooooong time (trust me - I've been there).

Personally, I'd stick with producing and leave the engineering to the person who's most familiar with the room and the rig. If things turn out great you can take the credit. If the recording is a disaster you can blame the engineer...



-Lance

[Reitzas]

Vertigo wrote on Tue, 31 January 2006 13:03

You're putting yourself at a serious disadvantage as well as setting yourself up as a target in the event that things don't turn out "great". If the recording doesn't turn out exactly the way you and your band want it to then all of the blame rests squarely on you. And you could be hearing about it for a loooooooong time (trust me - I've been there).

or

You can put yourself at a serious advantage as well as setting yourself up as a hero in the event that things turn out "great". If the recording turns out exactly the way you and your band want it to then all of the credit rests squarely on you. And you could be hearing about it for a loooooooong time (trust me - I've been there).


Dave Reitzas
http://www.reitzas.com

[Vertigo]

Quote:

You can put yourself at a serious advantage as well as setting yourself up as a hero in the event that things turn out "great". If the recording turns out exactly the way you and your band want it to then all of the credit rests squarely on you. And you could be hearing about it for a loooooooong time (trust me - I've been there).

Sounds like exactly what a producer does to me...

-Lance

[SirDonut]

wiggins wrote on Tue, 31 January 2006 19:01

If my name's not on the back of it, what other chance am I going to get? What if ZR closes before I get a chance like this again?  They're not exactly booked solid, if you know what I mean.

THIS ALBUM WAS PRODUCED BY WIGGINS

engineered by Jim


there's your solution. I want to reiterate: you will save yourself and your bandmates (who you have a commitment to) a lot of trouble if you act in the 'producer' role. I guarantee you that a lot more will be accomplished with this album by him engineering rather you struggling with the core engineering aspects of the studio. I bet he'll even let you turn a few knobs, too.

[Reitzas]

wiggins wrote on Tue, 31 January 2006 11:01

..... I decided 4 years ago that recording would be my life, for the rest of my life, and since then it has been. ..... I am intimately familiar with recording my own band, intimately familiar with our tones, with our equipment, with our drummer's tuning, and with what we want the finished product to sound like....... .....Jim will be there to help me. I doubt he's going to let me screw up any of his stuff. I'm obviously not going to be able to align the tape machines or navigate the patch bay at first glance, but that's why Jim is there.

I don't see where he is aspiring to be a Producer.
I still think it's a great opportunity for Wiggins to jump in and apply the learning of the last 4 years especially if his band-mates are supportive.


Dave Reitzas
http://www.reitzas.com

[wiggins]

These game of risk, she is no for the wuss, hey? We know these thing. Grazie.

How discouraging this business is! "You must go and pay for school! But oh yeah, you won't have a job when you get out. You must intern! But oh yeah, nobody's gonna let you intern unless you go and pay for school. You must buy this gears! But oh yeah, you won't have any time to use it working 3 jobs you'll need to pay for it all. You must give up! You must give up!"

How discouraging.

I know you guys are right, but I still feel like I'm trashing the only chance I'll get to work there. I still feel like I am being a "wuss", for lack of a more potent explative.

I still plan on talking to Jim tonight about exactly how "hands off" he'll be, or rather how "hands on" I'll be.

Meeting this much opposition to the idea has really made me think, really made me doubt myself. I'm often a sucker for self-doubt, so forgive me for trying to do something about it for once. Wulp, not this time, Wags, back to "you suck, dont even try!"

I'd like the record to show that I'd love nothing more than to come back in 2 weeks and make all of you put both feet in your
mouths, but it won't happen this time, I guess. Also, my band would rather I did it than Jim. They recorded with him last year a few weeks before I joined the band and weren't that happy with it. But I guess I'll be there this time to make sure everything goes "our" way.

You've all given sound, honest advice, and I truly thank you for it, I couldn't ask for more. But, in general, please think about how discouraging the higher-ups in recording are to lower-downs like me. Think about it sometime. It's fucked up, 'innit?

Thanks again.

-Wiggins

p.s. Thanks very much Dave, for the sticking-up-for-dumb-kids and all.

[Nama]

I'd like to help, and I can understand where you are coming from.

So, let me ask you a question. Have you worked on the console before?
If you have, how long? Do you know how things are patched in the studio?

Best

[John Ivan]

Wiggins;

If you think you can do a good job and the band would rather have you do it, then do it. My answer was based on what I would personally do if I had questions about knowing the rig. If you all go in understanding that part of what you are doing is learning and the band is cool with that then it's a great opportunity.

Hey, if there's a chart for the patch bay and you know how to get through the console, you CAN do it. It just depends on what your trying to get done. It sounds to me that in part, along with making a record, you are trying to get "seat time" on the bridge. I can relate and again, if everyone understands this going in, I think it's a great thing for you.

P.S. I'm no big wig and have been in your spot before. Truly, best of luck. You have passion and that ain't a bad thing to have.

Ivan...........................................

[Matt Drums]

I don't think Jim engineers in a way that caters to the sound of heavy music.  Everything I've ever heard that came out of there sounds a bit hollow and thin.  I think it may be the room.

Have you researched his work?  Do you like the way it sounds?  I think in choosing a studio you should at least like the engineers work... or the sound of the room.  

What was it about the sound that your band didn't like the first time?

[Nama]

Yeah, but even though there is a patch sheet, things are not patched as exactly as the patch sheet tells you because a pro studio updates constantly.

At least, that's my experience.

[McAllister]

I say go for it.

You've got a safety net - someone who won't let you fuck things up too badly, you sound like you've prepped, the band and the studio guy(s) all know what's going on. Do it.

Things will take a little longer to get happening 'cause it's your first time. And there will be a train wreck or two, and you'll come out of it still not knowing everything you need to know, but so what?

I don't think the "credit" thing doesn't mean a lot. Gaining confidence and experience is invaluable.

Get in, dig in, be honest, ask a shitload of questions, make mistakes, fix 'em, and make music.

It's your gig, your life, your band, your thing.

Good luck.


M