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Author Topic: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing  (Read 38523 times)

maxdimario

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WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« on: January 30, 2006, 02:04:46 PM »

First of all, an article with some statements by Pete townshend regarding using headphones in studios etc.


http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/060104_earbuds.html

Today I went to another doctor, and did another hearing test, because a few months ago I had an outburst of loud tinnitus.

the tinnitus has subsided enough that it is now possible for me to enjoy music somewhat, although not as long, and only music which will not create too much stress on the ears.

Although I am still able to make fine judgements regarding sound and electronics at moderate listening levels, I have definetly lost the ability to enjoy the music as much as I used to, given the constant 11KHz, 4Khz and 2K ghost tones that are now my backround noise.

My hearing loss would be technically described as 'moderate' not severe.

I just wanted to underline that I now realize that most of my hearing loss was due to my constant demo-writing in headphones, over the years, which is why I posted the article above.

The final straw, as far as I can tell was playing over a live drum kit and monitoring in headphones, for a couple of weeks, a month BEFORE symptoms arrived.

At first I could not listen to anything without hyperacusis.

So the moral of the story is: it's better to have extra loud monitors than moderately loud headphones.

throw those headphones away, if you don't want to end up like myself.

We need to make people more aware of how dangerous headphones are to hearing, I feel.

Headphones haven't been around enough for people to know the real truth: you will become deaf prematurely.

I am currently looking for some way to make the damage less frustrating.

who'd have thought it would kick in at my age? (37)
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rankus

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2006, 03:25:09 PM »



Sir George Martin also credits headphones as the main cause of his hearing loss.  (Excessive volume levels in the cans)

I make a point of only wearing them for 20-30 seconds at a time for drilling down on parts of a mix (to confirm what I hear in the monitors) then get them off as quickly as possible... I try to keep the volume as low as possible in the cans as well... still hanging in there at 47 years old... (fingers crossed)
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Greg Youngman

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2006, 06:15:49 PM »

And hearing aids are not a solution to hearing loss.  They only do more damage.
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Ronny

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2006, 02:02:01 AM »




Researchers have been successful lately in regenerating hair cells in birds with certain drugs. In the past, once a hair cell was gone and we have an average of only about 16,000 of them, it was gone. Hopefully as research develops and what they are learning and doing now with birds can be carried over to mammals and humans in particular, the days of hearing aids may be numbered and may be replaced with biological reconstructive hearing repair in the not too distant future.
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tamasdragon

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2006, 05:34:41 AM »

I think the main point is not the equipment, but the usage. You can easily 'achieve' hearing loss, with constant very loud monitoring through speakers too.
Regards Tamas Dragon

maxdimario

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2006, 06:13:25 AM »

This is true, but the damage achieved by direct coupling of the headphone to the eardrum is devastating.

it's a lot simpler to ruin your hearing with headphones.

I'd like to stress this point as much as possible, because we are used to having laws that limit us from doing permanent harm to ourselves, but there are no official campaigns that illustrate the danger involved to the degree that the average user will be convinced of the potential for harm.

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Ronny

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 10:36:55 AM »

maxdimario wrote on Tue, 31 January 2006 06:13

This is true, but the damage achieved by direct coupling of the headphone to the eardrum is devastating.

it's a lot simpler to ruin your hearing with headphones.

I'd like to stress this point as much as possible, because we are used to having laws that limit us from doing permanent harm to ourselves, but there are no official campaigns that illustrate the danger involved to the degree that the average user will be convinced of the potential for harm.





I've never gotten the ear damage thing, when it's loud enough to damage my ears it's uncomfortable to me and I turn it down. It's definitely not the gear that is responsible, but the person that is turning the volume knob. You can get damage from speakers or cans equally, it's just that can's are much more likely to give damage as people listen to them all of the time and a loud rock concert typically is over within a couple of hours. The cans are also flat up against the ear and no matter which way the head is turned the gain stays loud. The way it works is SPL at X amount of time. The louder it is, the less time you can listen before damage occurs, up until a point where dB does instant damage, that's around the 140dBA level, IIRC when that occurs.
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eightyeightkeys

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2006, 12:39:02 PM »

Also, wear hearing protection when you're doing any kind of construction that could be harmful. Hammering a nail, nail guns, bashing 2X6's into place, etc....
i have a feeling that this is how I've injured my right ear (though I'm not sure). Building my second studio. Just frickin' great.
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Ronny

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2006, 12:53:16 PM »

Dave @ D&D wrote on Tue, 31 January 2006 12:39

Also, wear hearing protection when you're doing any kind of construction that could be harmful. Hammering a nail, nail guns, bashing 2X6's into place, etc....
i have a feeling that this is how I've injured my right ear (though I'm not sure). Building my second studio. Just frickin' great.



I'll bet there are many more factory workers with hearing damage than musicians or audio engs. They remain exposed all day long 5, 6 days a week. Study has been done on factory workers where narrow frequency ranges are damaging. For example working near a machine that outputs a very loud narrow band of freq's. They can lose acuity in one narrow range while remaining normal in the rest of the spectrum.
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tamasdragon

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2006, 04:01:35 AM »

In my case cans were protected me from hearing loss. I was mixing monitors live for a top band in Hungary for 4 years. I alway worn cans. I quickly learned how my 'mixes' translates to wedges, and in-ears. My good headphones protected me. I used a volume in them, which was comfortable for me. I muted them for periods, so headphones became a protect device. Now I'm doing live very rarely, but the doctors exam proved that I have no hearing loss. All I tried to tell you is that, if you use cans wise, than it's not more offensive to your hearing than anything else in this world.
Regards Tamas Dragon

maxdimario

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2006, 04:10:49 AM »

this is true,
if you use them wisely, they will not harm you.

A lot of musicians do not use them wisely, though.

it's easy to get carried away when you're playing OVER blasting amps and drums.

there is also the fact that, if you do have hearing loss, to hear well you need to raise the level to the working threshold of your hearing. So it can easily become a vicious circle over the years.
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maxdimario

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2006, 08:36:49 AM »

There's an interesting article on headwise that stresses taking the headphones off frequently, as it is very difficult to judge sound pressure in headphones, and the ear tends to become unduly insensitive after a short time...which leads to turning it up.

My tinnitus is seemingly a result of the damaged cells being 'ON' all the time, instead of reacting  to sound.


Here is an interesting link.. you'd be surprised at the amount of showbiz people who have shot their hearing because of a stage prop or something.

http://tinpan.fortunecity.com/melody/73/tinnitus.html#
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Ryan Leigh Patterson

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2006, 12:57:59 PM »

I used to work landscape construction in the summer months when i was in University and I spent days on end usning all sorts of large and very loud machinery.  Quickcuts (gas powered stone saws terribly loud), jackhammers, skidsteers, etc...
I ALWAYS wore a set of custom fit ear plus AND the largest over the ear style muffs that I could find.  I think my hearing actually got better @ work because I would have these things on for hours at a time.... here's the kicker, I was also teaching @ an audio school during the evenings and I would come in after a day on the construction site and I'd be blown away by the volume that some of the other instructors were monitoring @.  I was always turning stuff down..... still am....


People monitor way to loud, headphones or not...
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Glenn Bucci

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2006, 03:02:24 PM »

I never had my cans at loud or even simi loud volumes. Alwasy at low volumes.

Ipods are another concern as well as the public just does not care about blasting music right into their ear drums. We will start seeing lawsuits against Apple from people who will say, I did not know that loud music or noise for that matter would damage my hearing. These are the same people who sue McDonalds for being fat.
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maxdimario

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2006, 02:01:46 PM »

It's good to see that a lot of you don't take things to the excess.

unfortunately from a musical and creative standpoint, when you listen to rock or modern music which uses volume as part of the recipe, it's difficult not to get emotionally caught up, especially when you've had a few drinks and you hear everything soft.

anyway I can't stress enough that the onset of this awful condition is NOT predictable.

Mine came one morning during the summer from out of the blue, and at the time it sounded like 90 dB.

now it's somewhere around 60-70 dB but it's NOT going away.

I have been listening to loud sources for years, but the last year or so I had been spending more time on headphones, and there was a 2 week project which was objectively loud because of the small room etc. and monitoring in cans over drums.

Had I known it would be like this I would have changed my habits.

hearing LOSS does not scare me.. what scares me is ghost tones, and sine waves that never leave my head day or night.

I hadn't really calculated on it being so severe all of a sudden.

So this is just to emphasise to the people who do use headphones but are not afraid of the circumstances.

you are making a big mistake if you are not playing headphones very quietly.... I mean very quiet..

Headphones can be more damaging than you think.

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Teddy G.

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2006, 12:27:52 AM »

What? I can't hear you through this whistling in my ears???

Turn down the phones, use ear protection when you're using the power mower or the chainsaw(Even for a minute - MAKE THE EFFORT!), wear discrete earplugs to the concert, speak quietly when arguing, cover your ears when the fire truck goes by, hope for good genetics. Remember that it's been said that whenever you hear your ears "ringing" you've lost at least a bit of your hearing - permanently.

If listening is your life, you won't really enjoy making the silly "what?" comments when it's gone.

TG

Dammit, now you got me thinking about it and I'll hear this GD ringing all-night long.
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midnightsun

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HEARING LOSS
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2006, 09:56:29 PM »

I lost the hearing in one ear about 20 years ago!    Since then I have been obcessed with preserving the hearing in my other ear and have been successful.   I own a dB meter and use it frequently.   Noise pollution is everywhere, I mean everywhere.   Just driving my truck to work registers 85 dB.    In the studio over 100 dB is common.    

We all owe it to ourselves to be educated about our hearing.   HOUSE EAR INSTITUTE has a good website to check out.
http://www.hei.org/education/soundpartners/sp.htm

We are all going to lose our hearing if we live long enough.    We should spend our hearing wisely.    

In my studio I feel that it is a moral/ethical responsibility to insist that the musicians who are young and invincible wear ear protection.   Some get pissy about it -- too bad.   I keep the dB meter on and give the talent feedback on how the volume of the sessions(s) continues to grow.    

I never use the cans for mixing.   But I use them all of the time in tracking sessions to give my ear added protection.   Of course I keep the volume low.

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ted nightshade

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2006, 10:30:11 PM »

I'm the odd guy who turns the phones down lower and lower as my ears adjust. But trying to do overdubs with phones, I turned them up higher and higher and it still was nothing like it should be...

Scary shit, overdubs with headphones!
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Cosmic Closet

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2006, 01:07:13 AM »

...Excellent post with lots of wise words.

At 15 or so I went to my first concert. Way too loud, PA way too overstressed. When I exited the club, I could not hear any of the Saturday night traffic in the middle of the city for something like 20 minutes. I knew that I was not about to subject my ears to something like that again.

In my work as a videographer (home musician on the side), I wear headphones a lot, for hours on end. But never, never without 30-db earplugs. Even the quiet hiss of an intercom system for 4-5 hours deadens my ears at the end of the day. With plugs, it's a whole other story.

The Ipods are really the worst combination, because it isn't bad enough that they are used in noisy environments, but that the earbuds offer no attenuation of said noise, forcing the volume even higher. And with the mid-range honk of those pathetic little drivers, you're really on your way to Deafville.

Much like with people recovering from serious illness, or drug addicts, who lecture on campuses to drive home the message in person, maybe some reasonably well-known musician or singer with hearing loss should do the same.

Best,
CC
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Pingu

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2006, 09:36:18 AM »

Thanks for the heads up guys..

Ive been doing a lot of listening through HP, a lot and i feel tinnitus setting in.

I'm going to use them sparingly from now on.
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Ronny

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2006, 11:04:44 AM »

Cosmic Closet wrote on Fri, 31 March 2006 01:07

...Excellent post with lots of wise words.

At 15 or so I went to my first concert. Way too loud, PA way too overstressed. When I exited the club, I could not hear any of the Saturday night traffic in the middle of the city for something like 20 minutes. I knew that I was not about to subject my ears to something like that again.

In my work as a videographer (home musician on the side), I wear headphones a lot, for hours on end. But never, never without 30-db earplugs. Even the quiet hiss of an intercom system for 4-5 hours deadens my ears at the end of the day. With plugs, it's a whole other story.

The Ipods are really the worst combination, because it isn't bad enough that they are used in noisy environments, but that the earbuds offer no attenuation of said noise, forcing the volume even higher. And with the mid-range honk of those pathetic little drivers, you're really on your way to Deafville.

Much like with people recovering from serious illness, or drug addicts, who lecture on campuses to drive home the message in person, maybe some reasonably well-known musician or singer with hearing loss should do the same.

Best,
CC



How do you tell a deaf man to give a speech?  

Actually Pete Townsend has been speaking out pretty regularly on his hearing loss that he attributed to wearing cans,in an attempt to warn new and upcoming musicians.
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Stefan

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2006, 07:09:39 AM »

I agree that headphones can damage your hearing, especially when used in noisy environment without earplugs.

I would just like to add that the audience is listening to music with headphones more and more, so how instruments are placed binaurally (is that the right word?) is getting more and more important. Listening to a mix with all the instruments 'inside your head' can be a scary. I prefer using Wavelabs Externalizer or Soundhacks +binaural to move guitars etc. 'out of the head'.

I use headphones as part of mixing (also for practical reasons, because I do much of the mixing late at home) but I always watch my listening levels very carefully. If I find myself starting to turn up the volume to be able to 'hear better', I call it a day (or night).
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Bender

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2006, 10:19:34 PM »

Continuing on the iPod tangent, it is even more deliterious to your ear health to listen to headphones while exercizing as your increased blood flow decreases resistance to High SPL (and while I know all of us are lazy bastards that never run, I always feel like we should alert those ppl you see running around the city blasting whatever in those scary white earbuds)

Food for thought.
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timothyallan

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2008, 08:25:43 PM »

High SPL is high SPL regardless of whether you're wearing cans, earbuds or listening on monitors, no?

Earbuds make it easier to have loud noises in your ear, but they're not the cause of hearing loss. It basically boils down to using the grey matter in between your ears, and the volume knob connected to your device does it not??


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overlordofanalog

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2008, 06:30:38 PM »

I just got my pair of flat attenuation ear plugs today.  They are really, really, really really awesome.  I definitely recommend that everyone gets a pair if they care about their hearing.
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Mike

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2008, 07:31:20 AM »

Great topic, guys, and one that I have mentioned more than once on my podcast.
I got into radio as a commercial and promo producer in '87.
In '91, the station I was working for gave me free tickets to go and see The Angels (Aussie hard rock band) supported by Cheap Trick  (this was in Hobart, in Tasmania).
It was a Friday night, I was 23 and still believed myself "10 foot tall and bullet proof" as the saying goes.
On Monday morning, trying to mix a promo, I had to "guess" the eq based on looking at the settings on the desk, and had to go and get another guy with 'ears' to come and confirm that it sounded ok.
My high frequency response was shot.
By Tuesday, it was pretty much back to normal... but that was 4 days after the event!!
That was my wake up call.
I realised that if I wanted to continue a career where my ears were my income, I would have to look after them. Up to that point, I was always monitoring notoriously loud in the studio, too.
It was at that point that I made a conscious descision to monitor at lower levels.
It took a while (read: weeks) to get used to the lower levels, but I'm sure glad I took that step when I did.
I haven't spent much time in headphones over the course of my career, but I have lost track of the number of on-air "jocks" I've met who have to have their headphones turned up to the point of feedback in order to hear themselves when they're on-air!
Scary stuff.
And those same guys tend to be a nightmare when you want them to read an ad or a promo, because again, they want their cans absolutely crankin'.
And when you're using a nice condensor in the production studio, you get that lovely "on-the-verge-of-feedback" 'ting' on every syllable.
It's frightening how many people in the (on-air side of the) radio industry are at that point.
So yeah, the more we can do to spread the word, the better.
The unfortunate thing is, right here at PSW, we're preaching to the converted (a lot of the time).
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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2008, 06:02:55 AM »

well i got my worse habits with headphones working at a radio station and seeing talent blasting sound into their headphones ad rock concert volumes..

I guess I subliminally thought that if they do it every day and have no problems then it must be ok in the long run.

not the case.

hearing damage is very annoying and results in phantom noises which can be very disturbing..

and everyone has a different lifespan for their ears.

so just because X rocker still doesn't suffer from tinnitus doesn't mean you won't suffer either.
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KAyo

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2008, 02:38:08 AM »

Hi guys,

I see so many wearing Headphones on the trains nowadays. Some sensibly, and some loopy loud!
On the trains, the background noise is quite loud, and packing another 60db to 80db on top for listening pleasure, is like asking the ear to bench press twice your  own body weight throughout the session. Crazy I tell ya’ crazy…

I am very careful with my ears at all times. I wear ear plugs many a places. Especially, before I take off on my motorcycle in traffic. Where noise levels can ruin a session to be.. The ear tightens up and takes a long time for it to free up or fell relaxed. I am always looking to keep the ear at that relaxed feeling, just b4 a session… that’s just me.

Cheers,
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Haydn Payne

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2010, 08:27:40 AM »

Supposedly driving with the window down can damage your hearing, although I dont know how much truth there is to that.

I cycle a lot and its worrying that having a constant fast airflow over my ears could be harming them.
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compasspnt

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2010, 09:30:46 AM »

Haydn Payne wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 08:27

Supposedly driving with the window down can damage your hearing, although I dont know how much truth there is to that.

I cycle a lot and its worrying that having a constant fast airflow over my ears could be harming them.



I have been told that drivers in the UK show more hearing damage in their right ears, whereas in the US it is in the left ears, from driving with the windows rolled down.

Also,

http://improve-your-health.net/archives/riding-in-convertibl es-may-damage-your-hearing.htm
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Mike O

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Re: WARNING! headphones will ruin your hearing
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2010, 03:36:31 PM »

compasspnt wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 14:30

Haydn Payne wrote on Wed, 07 April 2010 08:27

Supposedly driving with the window down can damage your hearing, although I dont know how much truth there is to that.

I cycle a lot and its worrying that having a constant fast airflow over my ears could be harming them.



I have been told that drivers in the UK show more hearing damage in their right ears, whereas in the US it is in the left ears, from driving with the windows rolled down.

Also,

 http://improve-your-health.net/archives/riding-in-convertibl es-may-damage-your-hearing.htm



I was told by a UPS VP in the early '90s that damage to the left ear appeared in virtually EVERY long term package delivery person.
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