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Author Topic: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty  (Read 13198 times)

Ronny

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2006, 01:53:39 pm »

wwittman wrote on Mon, 10 April 2006 01:15

You'll forgive me but that sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo to me.

If you think the soundwaves know whether the mic is pointing up or down... well, then  your guitars are a LOT more unidirectional than mine.



I agree, but mainly with the part about boosting and cutting the same freq's. This makes little sense to me other than they are just being euphonic with the extra device in the chain.
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brett

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2006, 05:34:20 am »

Vertigo wrote on Thu, 02 February 2006 03:20

Quote:

If you understand what I'm relating rjd2 and you mirror my 3 mic technique, I'll guarantee you that you'll get a good sound, providing the guitar is decent to begin with.


Someone posted this technique about a year ago and man - I haven't had trouble recording an acoustic since. I also usually add the DI in behind these three (if the guitar has pickups), and then pan the tracks a good bit to get a stereo spread, keeping the bassier soundhole mic (I use a D-19c) in the middle. This keeps the most low end energy from the guitar coming through both speakers evenly which makes it easy to pan the other tracks the way I want while still retaining a feeling of balance in the stereo field.

Great technique - it helped me a lot.

-Lance




brilliant!! I spent... I don't know how many hours tryng to record my freinds Taylor Rythm guitar. We never did get it right. If I had read this then It would have saved our sessions. We scrapped it all after 3 sessions and he ended up going to a full scale studio to do his project. I had offered to do his acoustic album for him but I had no idea how hard getting it would be. Trying to get his guitar to sound good through is low SPL ballad intros to his exploding rythm parts was a nightmare. This techniqe would have done wonders, but I only had one mic at the time.

i have a couple now, RE20 and a C1, but I think a pair of km184 or similar and a T3 or a NTKtube will be coming soon. The NTKtube sounds very nice on vocals too, and the RE20 does low end so well. I am sure on the guitar hole it will do well. The C1 should do the over shoulder or room micing well too. I can't wait to try it. thanks, Brett
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grizzly joe

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2006, 10:11:02 pm »

why hasn't anyone said anything about double tracking?
hmm...
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Ronny

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #48 on: April 18, 2006, 10:42:43 pm »

grizzly joe wrote on Tue, 18 April 2006 22:11

why hasn't anyone said anything about double tracking?
hmm...


Topic was: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty

He needs to get his single tracking right first, otherwise he's just double tracking the same dull mic configuration. The 3 mic technique makes double tracking less important because instead of having 2 reapeat tracks slightly out of phase, you have 3 tracks to work the stereo image with, isolation of low, mid and high tones and also the over the shoulder mic is excellent for adding natural ambience and giving the recording a window from the performers perspective. The ambient mic when panned center, can replace the typical reverb that a single mic'd acoustic track may require, even if it's double tracked.

He says his guitar sound is shitty, if he double tracks without rethinking mic placement, than he's going to have 2 shitty tracks. If the bridge transducer is good quality, adding it on a 4th track will give even more depth and gives a larger tonal pallette. It's also cleaner sounding than double tracking as there are no beat frequencies or phasing between the two guitars. There are no rules, these are just suggestions that have worked for me for a few decades, double tracking acoustic is fine, but I'd make sure that you have the guitar sounding good on the first take.
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IainDearg

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2006, 11:30:44 am »

Hi! newbie here, so the following should be read in that light  Smile . This applies to solo guitar recording in particular.

I've been recording Martins and Gibsons for nigh on 25 years as a musician (only 3 of which were professional  Smile ). This was by and large in studios in Londnon and only latterly in my own setup in Scotland. I tend not to fuss or obsess about the niceties (any more), but 3 fundementals are non-negotiable.

1. A fine guitar. I use a Martin OM-18 these days (small body, mahogony. Lots of snap and oomph.)
2. An acceptable room. This means for me broadband absorption to tame room modes.
3  No phase issues. Any spaced mic techique has phase issues to my ears now. The so-called 3 to 1 rule is not good enough so it's X/Y or mid-side for me. X/Y is my go-to with SDCs - about 18" pointing at the dovetail joint. An additional important advantage of coincident mics is that the guitar image is not 20 foot wide on playback. These things are 3 foot wide?

The above are inviolate and if I follow them I get realistic guitar recordings - not a splashy, muddy or mushy mess.

Guitar set-up is more important than the age of strings (within reason). A guitar with a medioce set-up will have intonation problems to some degree, may be difficult to play cleanly, and may even fret-buzz to an unmusical degree. Tuning machines my even resonate on certain notes.

Stuff like EQ, compression and reverb are a matter of taste and aesthetic during the mix. But while they are more often employed than not, it's with a light hand.

As to the quality of mics and preamps; as important as they are, I assert that they are second-order considerations.

So, to repeat:

Guitar.. room.. coincident mics.

Thanks and regards.
Dave

maccool

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2006, 04:42:56 pm »

IainDearg wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 16:30

2. An acceptable room. This means for me broadband absorption to tame room modes.


Dave, I'd put #2 at the top of the list.  Otherwise, I agree; what you describe has turned out to be the go-to set up for myself playing, although mono and spaced pair mic placements work well and may be better for different players and/or different instruments.  In skilled hands, even a mediocre guitar will sound good in a properly treated room.

When thinking about room modes, don't forget the room-guitar modes like ceiling-to-soundboard;  these I found more troublesome than the room's innate modes, and broadband absorption is indeed the answer, especially in a small room.
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IainDearg

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #51 on: April 21, 2006, 04:42:53 pm »

maccool wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 15:42

IainDearg wrote on Thu, 20 April 2006 16:30

2. An acceptable room. This means for me broadband absorption to tame room modes.



When thinking about room modes, don't forget the room-guitar modes like ceiling-to-soundboard;  these I found more troublesome than the room's innate modes.

That's interesting. I confess I hadn't considered this! Do you mean the room setting up a sympathetic resonance in the guitar? Sort of acoustic feedback? Or have I misunderstood?

Off topic, but I'm reminded how curious it is to see folks auditioning expensive guitars in these 5 X 6 ft high-end rooms in guitar stores. With all the other guitars on the wall droning symphathetically away. And not a slab of rockwool or 703 to be seen. How can they tell??

maccool

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2006, 05:11:11 pm »

IainDearg wrote on Fri, 21 April 2006 21:42

...Do you mean the room setting up a sympathetic resonance in the guitar? Sort of acoustic feedback?


Not "sort of", but "exactly"!  When I'm seated and playing guitar, harmonics of A are deadly for me.

I'm having to deal with this now myself, and must consider that the absorption needs to attenuate not just the reflective resonance of the room's modes, but also the more sensitive modal resonance of the room and the guitar.  This is particularly so with respect to the vertical axial mode, since I can't move up and down to find a good spot.
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IainDearg

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2006, 11:41:31 am »

Maccool - Thanks. I'm going to give this some thought.

Cheers
Dave

Jørn Bonne

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #54 on: April 24, 2006, 05:11:37 am »

I was plagued with resonanses in my old room. The way I got around it the easy way was like this:

I knew the main problems were roughly between 100 and 200 hertz, so I went ahead and created a sweeping test tone in that area. I played back the test tone in cycle mode while moving around (on all fours!!) and checking different parts of the room, until I found a spot where it sounded even, with no peaks or dips. This is where I put up my mikes and recorded the guitar there using my usual distances. And sure enough, those resonances were gone with the wind. Guitar now sounded full and even with no boominess or other resonances.

Cheers

J
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IainDearg

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #55 on: April 24, 2006, 07:29:07 am »

J

Jørn Bonne

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #56 on: April 24, 2006, 04:01:31 pm »

LOL!!

I can assure you that I got back on my feet as soon I had found that good sounding spot and, yes, sat in a chair and played.

It's a cheap and easy way to solve the problems with room modes and resonances discussed here, especially for people recording in small spaces. Mark off the good sounding spot with a piece of tape and put up your mikes there whenever you record acoustic guitar. Works like a charm with no money spent.

J
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