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Author Topic: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty  (Read 13211 times)

Ronny

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2006, 11:25:19 pm »

floodstage wrote on Thu, 09 February 2006 22:17

Don't forget to check the mics for phase problems by inverting phase and listening to make sure the sound doesn't go to shit.  I hear acoustics tracked with serious phase problems all the time.  (especially phase between the bridge and 12th fret mics)


You won't have any phase problems if you set the hole and 12th fret mics close. Anytime phase enters the equation it's because the tracking eng isn't following the 3 to 1 rule.
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floodstage

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2006, 06:10:25 pm »

I was micing an acoustic guitar using a 2 mic setup yesterday morning and I was having problems with phase.  I moved the mics around for quite a while and finally found a place where at the same time, it sounded really nice and the phase problems went away.

Guess here the mics were?

X-Y. Pointed at bridge and 12th fret.  Imagine that!

Trying the 3 mic setup next session.
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RMoore

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2006, 05:19:21 am »

I love those Nick Drake records,

Considering the time they were recorded I am sure that they just stuck a good mic on the guitar, run through good console preamp and to tape with no fuss or fretting (no pun intended)...I would bet you could have put  ND in front of almost any mics & you'd still have gotten that ND sound.

IMO the biggest part of the ND sound must have to do with his guitar and own playing style, not to mention alternate tunings which change the whole character of the sound..

You might like the UK guitar legend Bert Jansch - not sure how well he's known in the US (?) but he was a major influence on many UK folkies with an insane picking style.
I think even some folk people on that side of the pond were into him like Niel Young & Joni Mitchell ...Page's acoustic work was very influenced by BJ I do believe and Zep even incorporated ideas from him - like from Black Water Side.

Listen for yourself:
http://tinyurl.com/d5vhl

There's a killer essential IMO double album collection around on 1 x CD with the '65/ '66 albums 'Bert Jansch' & 'Jack Orion'
Transatlantic / Demon TDEMCD14
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Joe Black

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2006, 07:52:02 pm »

Ryan Moore wrote on Sat, 11 February 2006 05:19

There's a killer essential IMO double album collection around on 1 x CD with the '65/ '66 albums 'Bert Jansch' & 'Jack Orion'
Transatlantic / Demon TDEMCD14


Thanks for that. I'll be ordering from my local record store tomorrow.
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Buzz

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2006, 09:30:01 pm »

I just tried the 3 mic setup described using Microtek Geffel Um70's for the XY ( 12th fret and bridge ) and a c-414ubls over the should er , I spread the 414 and the bridge mic Lt/Rt and the 12th fret straight up NICE SOUND the best I've ever gotten so far

THANKS GUYS

LAter
Buzz

wwittman

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2006, 11:27:54 pm »

IN a one guitar or one guitar and voice setting I might consider mutiple mics or stereo mic'ing.
But in pop or rock with other instruments, especially loud guitars or drums, around, I never use more than one mic.

Anyone see the McCartney at Abbey Road special on tv a few weeks ago?

Playing and singing in front of 2 U-47's (or 48's ) and the guitar sounded great.

no careful positioning either... just standing in the general vicinity of a great mic in a great room with a really good guitar.

All of MY favourite acoustic recordings have actually been with Gibsons, and most often with J-200's! Very bassy guitars (rumour has it that it was designed to be picked up by the vocal mic and still sound full enough) yet with the right EQ they always seem to shine.

Listen to the Tommy overture. A near perfect acoustic sound.

I typically put a large diaphragm vocal type condenser about 8" in front of the guitar pointed at somewhere betwen the neck and the hole.
If it's boomy I lower it and point more at the high strings.
Too clicky, I pull the mic up and point it down at the spot.
But it rarely varies MUCH from that starting point.

I'm very fond of the RCA Ba6a as well, but I've also had good luck with La2a's.
Naturally compression isn't NECESSARY, just seems to help it find its place in the balance sometimes.

These days I use the Gefell UM-900 a lot, but I've also used the U-47, Gefell UM-70's, KM-86's and even the occasional STC 4038 when I wanted a more transparent, less substantial sort of sound.
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William Wittman
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maccool

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2006, 11:57:49 am »

giraffe wrote on Sat, 28 January 2006 19:27

what's your room like?

The room is crucial.

What's your room like?
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maxdimario

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2006, 04:59:33 pm »

Quote:

All of MY favourite acoustic recordings have actually been with Gibsons, and most often with J-200's! Very bassy guitars


...but they have that gibson 'chime' to them that cuts through anyway.

there's that midrange resonance to them as well, which martins seem to lack.
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Pete G

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2006, 04:02:34 am »

William

Didn't I read recently that you had used a Brauner VM1 on acoustic guitar for Cindy Lauper? How would you rate that mic for acoustic guitars?

cheers

pg
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mattrussell

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2006, 11:22:26 am »

great question and so many great answers.  i really like the shure KSM141 on acoustic guitar and have been using them for a while now with great success.  seem to work really well on many acoustic stringed instruments.

someone a while back showed me two things...if you record acoustic guitar with the player using a click, make the click dark sounding in their headphones.  really keeps the bleed down.  also, try starting with just one mic and put on the gtr player's headphones and have them play.  have your assist pot up the mic a fair amount and move the mic around until you find the sweet spot.  do this with the mic on the boom stand.  hold it in place and quickly lock it down.  (use the stand like a boom pole).  you'll get really close and after listening in the control room, you'll maybe need to do a slight adjustment.  it usually gets me 90% there.
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matt russell
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wwittman

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2006, 10:47:27 pm »

Pete G wrote on Sun, 02 April 2006 04:02

William

Didn't I read recently that you had used a Brauner VM1 on acoustic guitar for Cindy Lauper? How would you rate that mic for acoustic guitars?

cheers

pg


I used the Vma (actually) on Cyndi's vocals, but mostly Gefell UM900's on the guitars.

index.php/fa/2641/0/
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William Wittman
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Pete G

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #41 on: April 06, 2006, 01:03:17 am »

wiiliam wrote:

used the Vma (actually) on Cyndi's vocals, but mostly Gefell UM900's on the guitars.

Thanks William, my mistake - you have the Gefell pointing at the lower front of the body - is this a regular positioning or just the most appropriate positioning for these particular circumstances?
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wwittman

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #42 on: April 07, 2006, 02:35:35 am »

That'a pretty close to my usual.
it does look like it's pointing down a bit in that photo, it's sort of coming in down at an angle at the guitar, but it's not really pointing at the lower part of the body specifically,  it's just the angle in the photo.

here's another of the same session (that's Jamie West-Oram) from Cyndi's last record.

index.php/fa/2648/0/
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William Wittman
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rphilbeck

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2006, 05:56:34 pm »

I snagged this out of EQ magazine.....

RON & HOWARD ALBERT have graced the acoustic guitar sounds of Eric Clapton, Keith Richards, Steve Cropper, et al. The key? According to Ron? Hardware.

“The ultimate acoustic guitar sound is a Martin D-45, preferably vintage, with bronze-wound strings. Put a Neumann U-87 into a shockmount and place it on a stand upside down, so the capsule is at the bottom — the secret is that you don’t get reflections off the metal body of the microphone that way. Set the mic on axis to the strings, as close as comfortable to the guitarist. Then, run it first through a Pultech PEQ-1A equalizer, because they have the ability to cut and boost in the same frequency range simultaneously. That’s what we do — cut and boost the highs and lows; the microphone honks the mids on its own. Then send it through a UREI 1176LN compressor. The setting will vary according to how hard the guitarist plays.

“On vocals, one longtime trick of ours has been to use dynamic microphones, like a Shure SM-7, for rock vocals. Dynamics lower the proximity effect and they tend to sit in the mix better, whereas condensers tend to pop out.”
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wwittman

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Re: acoustic guitar sound help, mine is shitty
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2006, 01:15:40 am »

You'll forgive me but that sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo to me.

If you think the soundwaves know whether the mic is pointing up or down... well, then  your guitars are a LOT more unidirectional than mine.
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William Wittman
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